Ever been mad at God

[backtothefuture]

Hi,
I would like to know if any one here has ever been mad, angry or disappointed in God. If so, how did you work through that.
After a wonderful week of grace talk we had a hum-dinger of a blow out here at my house yesterday. After sobbing on my bed and telling my 23 year old son I don't believe in God anymore and he is right, its a bunch of crap... (he was sweet and told me, mom you are just emotional today)
Anyway, today, I went to him and told him the truth. I told him I do believe in God, I am just angry at God right now and I think that is OK. Part of it I know is from the confusion of my fundamental background and the awakening of a new way of thinking and feeling like I lost the faith I once use to believe in.
Any thoughts to help me out of my funk.
Nancy

[Amie]

Nancy,

I haven't ever been angry with God, but I know people who still are. You are not alone and I want to applaud your courage for bringing this up and talking about it openly.

How have you been able to work through it, if at all?

Amie

[Infinite Grace]

My anger with God first started when my first marriage ended. How could my heavenly Father let me go through this? I was a PERFECT Christian. I did everything he wanted me to...blah, blah, blah. My anger resulted in substance abuse, ungodly sexual behavior, and a turning from God. It was well over a year before I started (and I mean started) working on these issues. It was nearly a year after that when I found some victory, mostly through meeting a wonderful woman who I am now married to and have been for over 12 years.

More anger came when PERFECT jobs that I thought would solve all my problems didn't materialize (even just a couple of weeks ago this happened again). Why won't God let me have these high paying jobs that I am obviously qualified for? I am still not sure...

When we find ourselves angry with God (or anyone else for that matter), we need to look deep into ourselves to find out why. Keep in mind that not all anger is unrighteous, just anger that results in violence - physical or otherwise. When we find ourselves angry, we need to look at what we were thinking when we got angry. In my case, it was a matter of self-promotion: ME, ME, ME. Once I realized that the world didn't revolve around me, it helped me.

Now, someone else's anger may be as a result of cognitive distortions that center on their unworthiness. This is a problem in fundamentalism. Fundamentalism so promotes the idea of being perfect, holy, separate that they also promote guilt and shame in those people who are not. Sometimes fundamentalists who realize that they can never live up to these standards get mad at God first. Then they read or talk to someone, find out that those "standards" were not God's, but man's. At that point, the anger usually is transferred to the men who are imposing their own self-righteousness upon their unsuspecting followers.

Nancy, thanks for sharing. Sorry it took so long for me to answer. I've been busy. Honesty is something that sets people free - first the person being honest, and secondly, everyone else who is listening. Thanks for your honesty.

And we thank God for bringing you into our lives, Nancy. You have been more of a blessing to me (and others here) than you can possibly imagine.

Give our love to your family,

[backtothefuture]

Hi,
Thanks for your responses. I only just realized that I was truly mad at God. On my journey these past 3 years, I have been through grief, then depression, then dealing with abandonment and now Anger. What is positive about this, is that I recognized it, but don't know what to do now.
I have sat before God in pain and suffering for 3 years. And I mean pain and suffering. My body hurts everyday and watching 27 people you love die and almost your daughter and cat and dog, did not do much for my faith. It wasn't until this weekend, that i realized I was truly mad at God. I prayed for each and every one of this people including always my sick children. Its just pain on top of pain for us here in this family everyday.
Its not just disappointment with God its anger. And it really conflicts with the grace that I am just learning about. I was able to extend that to my husband and for some reason not to myself. Maybe that is the next leg of this journey.
I don't understand my self what it means for me to be under grace. I can tell the entire world, but can't convince myself. Thats the part of fundamentalism where I feel still so unworthy. Why did I ever want anyone to follow this kind of religion. Is God hearing my prayers? What verses can I cling to in my heart to help me float through this sea of crashing waves? Everything I learned under fundamentalism has been a joke. Now a curse. Try to de-program yourself of 45 years of that kind of stuff. Why did God allow it? What does the Bible really mean for me now? Is it just a nice book to read on a cold day now??? I am so cynical now. I never felt that way under law and bondage!! How come under freedom, I feel duped and wondering how I play into this thing called life now?
Anyway, I feel that the first true thing I ever told my children about God is that I am mad at him. How is that for a Bible lesson!! But I also told them, I think its ok. I hope I am right.
Thanks all
Nancy:confused:

[Lou]

Nancy I have been angry at God and still am at times. In fact till I allowed myself to be angry at God I never knew Him. God is not unapproachable and why withhold anything from Him.

[Amie]

Cry out to him, he hears you my sister. Beat your pillow, let the tears flow - you will be comforted. As Lou said, "Why withhold anything from him?"


And it really conflicts with the grace that I am just learning about.

I respectfully disagree. You have been brought into the awareness of his presence, and are now embarking upon an honest relationship. You are a perfect child of God, and no amount of candid-ness will change that in his eyes.

King David felt abandoned at times (Psalms 22:1), he asked God to break the teeth of his enemies (Psalms 58:6), he made really bad choices (had a husband sent off to die so he could marry the widow), yet he was called "a man after God's own heart" (Acts 13:22, 1 Samuel 13:14). He set the ark out for all to approach, that's why. He was raw and real.

He also wrote:

Psalms 23
1 ¶ A Psalm of David. Jehovah is my shepherd; I shall not lack.
2 He makes me lie down in green pastures; He leads me to waters of rest;
3 He restores my soul; He guides me in paths of righteousness for His name's sake.
4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death I will fear no evil; for You are with me; Your rod and Your staff, they comfort me.
5 You prepare a table for me before ones vexing me; You anoint my head with oil; my cup runs over.
6 Surely, goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life; and I shall dwell in the house of Jehovah for as long as my days.

When you give yourself over in relationship to Him, you are also giving yourself over for comforting. I'm so glad to know you in this dark part of your life's journey.


Why did God allow it?

I cannot pretend to know the mind of God. This reminds me though, of a story.

In Luke 7 (verses 36-50), Jesus is reclining with a Pharisee as a woman comes in and begins to wash his feet with her tears, wiping them dry with her hair, and annointing them with perfumed ointment.

The Pharisee thought to himself that if Jesus was a prophet, he would have known who this woman was (a known sinner). I assume that the Pharisee would expect the "true prophet" never to allow such a thing.

Jesus responds (side note - the Pharisee had "thought to himself"), "I have a thing to say to you". That statement alone gives me goosebumps. He then goes into a parable: "There were two debtors to a certain creditor: the one owed five hundred denarii and the other fifty. But they not having a thing to pay, he freely forgave both. Then which of them do you say will love him most?"

The Pharisee answers correctly that the one who owed him the most would love him the most. Jesus then points out that the Pharisee had not given him water for his feet, though she washed them with her tears and dried them with her hair. The Pharisee had not given him a kiss, though she hadn't stopped kissing his feet since he entered the place. He hadn't annointed Jesus's head with ointment, and she had annointed his feet with ointment. He then says (and watch this) "Her many sins are remitted, for she loved much."

She wasn't there begging his forgiveness, she was there demonstrating how grateful she was. She "loved much" and her sins were already "remitted".
Jesus then says that he who is forgiven little, loves little (speaking toward the Pharisee in my guess). He affirms to her that her sins are forgiven, her faith having saved her (she was grateful because she believed He was the Messiah).

You say you feel unworthy my sister and I would be a liar if I said that I never felt that way. It is those of us who truly recognize and accept our errs, that "love much".

If you gained anything from any of this, then perhaps you will know what the bible means now. If you do not, it's okay (it really is). Relationship with God imo, supercedes any bible lesson.

Amie

[jlv]

Years ago, when my pregnant wife had cancer. We were mad at God. Not because of the cancer. Not because she was facing death. But because of the way our church treated us during our time of need. To this day, we are still mad at them.

JL

[Paige]

I have a question about being mad at God. The thought occurred to me that there is this scripture where Jesus says that (paraphrasing) as much as you have done it unto the least of these you have done it unto me. I wonder if that could also work in the reverse. What I mean is that when we are angry at our neighbor, in reality we are angry at God. If that is the case, then honestly, we have probably all been mad at God, but never faced the truth of our anger in that moment.

When we are angry at our circumstances, at the core we are angry at the God Who is over our circumstances. If this is true Nancy, then I would have to say that all of us have been mad at God, even if we didn't really know it, and you are not alone in your thinking.

Paige

[Infinite Grace]

Paige,
that is a very good point if you really ponder it. While most of us who identify with infinite/fulfilled grace would say that we are NOT Calvinists in the 5 point sense, we mostly agree that God is sovereign over the redemptive acts, and some of us go so far as to think that he is sovereign over everything. With the sovereign over everything mentality, we must then conclude that whatever happens to us is a result of his plan for us. Therefore, by being mad or angry with those who do wrong to us, we are in fact angry with God.

good point.

[backtothefuture]

Hi,
Thanks everyone for your great responses. I realize this is not talk-grace therapy. But the answers I have gotten out of my fundamental background, always come back to its me. Not praying enough, reading the bible enough, to much of something. And for the life of me, I just don't understand my life of suffering. Maybe its really been a gift and I just haven't gotten to that place yet.
The Psalms are the only place in the Bible that I can relate to and get some comfort. Maybe because I am a Poet at heart. And that is the place that speaks to me.
I am broken. I know that. Some days I can deal with it, some days I can't.
Trying to find the strength I need from the infinite grace side, has been hard for me. I understand what you all are saying and yet part of me some days wants to run back into the church.Dysfunctional as it is. I suppose that is just normal, to go back to what you know.
Life is hard. We all know that. There is probably not a person on this forum that has been spared from hurt and pain. Its just for me, I don't feel like its all been my fault. Its been ordained in some way and thats what bothers me.
Jesus suffered, Job surely suffered. David had tremendous pain and grief. Mary must of suffered watching her son die, The disciples suffered. I guess I am on a journey where Grace over rules the pain. One day, God willing that will happen.
So for now I am angry at God. The good-news is, I still must believe in one to be angry at him!! But I am also weary and that makes it hard to see with the eyes of hope or grace.
And I suppose I am questioning it all now, because its the time to do so. I just walked head held up, marching forward with faith, because that is what I was told to do.
So when my first husband left me at 22 years old, never to be seen or talked to again. Why I just believed all those Cruthers books. Name it and claim it. I thanked God every night for years that he was coming back. Didn't happen.
When I went through hard hard labor and lost our first son on Mothers day, I got down on my knees and sang, thy loving kindness is better than life.
When I lost our second son on our first anniversary after 10 days in the hospital, I got down on my knees and sang, I surrender all.
When I lived with alcoholism the first 7 years of this marriage, I prayed and rebuked the devil and spoke in tongues until my voice was raw. My husband now 20 years sober. But the damage still not repaired to this family.
When our daughter was diagnosed with a growth hormone disorder, I prayed and told her, God was right here with her. Jesus knows all about her. Even the hairs on her head. Now at 25 she has osteoporosis and may never have children because of her size.
When our son, who was born with out some teeth and lung problems, I just rallied and we lived in the emergency room for 10 years. Now with social anxiety and still throwing up at 23 everyday, I tell him, I don't know why this is still happening, but I love him. And I am sorry.
When 27 people died in our family and I prayed and fasted and went before the Lord day and night, they still all died. Don't know what to think about that.
Through 13 surgeries, breaking my back in 3 places, breaking my foot, having terrible fybromayalgia, I weep now. I am broken. Hope deferred makes the heart sick. I am sick now. Sick with brokenness. I don't know where to go from here. I have learned some grace this year. Especially with my husband. We would not be together now, if it wasn't for that eye opening experience. I have bagel church, but its not enough. I want to be connected. But never again to legalism or false doctrine, so that doesn't leave me any churches to go around here. Occasionally we go to a big mega church called Willow Creek. My husband wants to go now. After 10 years of begging him to go, now he wants to go and I don't. So go figure. Its big and empty and means nothing to me. The music makes me cry, because I still am so broken. The message makes me nuts, because what the pastors talk about, just never seemed to happen with me. The joy of the Lord, is surely lacking in my walk.
Oh my gosh, this is way to long. Ed or one of the moderators, just cut it down, or delete it if its just to bonkers.
Thanks everyone.
Nancy

[Amie]

I don't blame God for keeping Bryan from getting his manager position. I don't think that God creates (though he is able if he wanted to, and therefore sovereign) my future, I think he expects it and interferes when it is in my best interest (I don't think that I can know what my best interest is).

Life to me is life. Though God is sovereign, he has given us freedom imo. There is death and suffering and that sucks, it really sucks. I don't think though, that God killed the family members that I have lost, or anyone else's. I don't think that God makes pedophiles sexually abuse children either.

I think that God created consequence, and that consequence teaches us about choices. That is not to say that everyone learns from their teacher.

I think that God lends a hand when it is his will and when it is not his will, we're not in the position to understand why.

I also think that every minute that life sucks, that God is with us. I think that is why when we allow ourselves to really feel, that we find comfort. Just try screaming and crying for a while - see where it gets you.

I agree that God is sovereign over redemption. He protected our life with His and then he gave us liberty ("the truth shall make you free").

Someone dear to me has been angry at God for years. She has the same pov as I do as per his sovereignty. She cries out "How can he allow this!" I answer "because we are free". If we were not free, would this even be a life? I don't think so.

I have lived the life of a robot - having every breath I take controlled. I would rather be free and die, than be a robot and live!

Pain means that you are free. God with us means that we can feel it, and find comfort.

I'm spitting mad right now because I had to go out looking for a part time job rather than devote my time and energy to being Mom, Wife, and to this ministry!! I don't blame God for it, and don't have any reason personally, to be mad at him.


Amie

[backtothefuture]

Amie and all,
Do you think that part of my suffering is from the distortion of fundamental thinking. We are taught from day one, that this is Gods will or that is Gods will or where 3 or more are gathered there God will be, which also met to us our prayers would be answered?
Also, if its bad it comes from the Devil. If its good it comes from God. Well, I don't believe in a devil anymore so where is all this pain coming from? I know mostly life in general, but Gee Wiz anyway:eek:
I mean, my mother in law (God bless her) always believed that she could go sit it the middle of the busiest highway around here, but God would protect her and she wouldn't get hit by a car. How nuts is that. Well, thats what I am dealing with. Part of my anger, is probably more grief. For all my loss, dreams and realizing that the faith I once believed in, is toxic for one and I can't seem to process where I am now with what I am coming out of.
Thanks
Nancy

[Paige]

Nancy,

I would think there is a lot of distortion in what we were taught and even how we can see things right now. If my husband says something to me, it is entirely possible that the way I receive it is not how he meant it to be received. That is part of the trouble I have w/assigning God's will to everything that occurs around us. That being said, I like what Byron Katie says about reality:

"For me, the word God means "reality." Reality is God, because it rules. Anything that's out of my control, your control, and everyone else's control-I call that God's business."

Tie that in with this thought from her as well:

"If you want reality to be different than it is, you might as well try to teach a cat to bark. You can try and try, and in the end the cat will look up at you and say, 'Meow.' Wanting reality to be different than it is is hopeless. You can spend the rest of your life trying to teach a cat to bark."

That is partly where my previous comments were directed. When I'm angry at my reality, what am I angry at ultimately? I think you are in an honest place when you can face the thoughts you are having. I also think there is hope for all of us because we can learn to stop arguing with reality, accept it, and eventually embrace it.

I know you don't often read a bunch, and you just finished one book; however, if you get a chance, I think you might be helped by doing "the work." Byron Katie introduces us to this concept in her book, "Loving What Is." Reading that book helped me see things on an entirely different level. I feel it is a level that God wanted me to see things from all along, but I didn't have the tools for a long time to see that way. I also notice that when I don't do the work on my own thoughts, I experience more pain and suffering than when I do.

Anyway, if you are interested let me or Amie know. (She is real helpful at helping others through the work!)

Paige

[backtothefuture]

Thanks Paige,
I did get the book you talked about by Bryon Katie. I just couldn't get through it. Maybe I just wasn't ready for it and should give it a go again.
On another thought, do you think we can be taught a false hope?
Nancy

[Paige]

On another thought, do you think we can be taught a false hope?

The thought that comes to my mind are the countless people who are told basically, "Jesus is coming back soon, and then we'll experience utopia." I think they are being taught to hope for some kind of physical perfection that I don't think was ever promised.

Also, I remember being taught that things are getting worse and worse, but no worry because before they get too bad, we'll all be raptured out of here.

So many things being taught..."If you're really spiritual, you'll be able to speak in tongues"; "Name it and claim it". (I see that as the health, wealth, and prosperity gospel.) A lot of well meaning folk truly believe these things, and because they believe them, they teach them to others. So yeah, I would say we can be taught false hopes. What do you think?

Paige

[backtothefuture]

I use to think it was more like false theology. But now see more as the things I learned and followed lead to false hope. Everything was still under some kind of law.
I have tried so hard to follow all the rules and ended up with a path of suffering. But again, maybe in the end, that won't be a bad thing. I am here anyway, what ever shape I am in:o
5 years ago, I wouldn't never even thought about fulfillment and infinite grace. Heck, after years of being a Christian, I didn't really no anything about grace.
Somehow, I need to change my reality. And to get rid of the false hopes and the damage it has done. I just don't now how to do it.
I am broken. God knows it, and I know it. Maybe that is really the best thing that could have happened to me. We at least agree on this one thing.
Thanks to all of you for your kindness and words of comfort and the words that make me think.
Blessings
Nancy

[Amie]

Nancy,

I am sure that this is a huge adjustment for you. The grief process that you're going through is natural. I can't relate as per the church atmosphere that you experienced, but I can relate strongly to the betrayal. When I began to have the ability to even look at myself and what I had surrounded myself with (through knowing Grace), the first thing that I did was fall to my knees weeping and crying out "How could you do this to me!!!?" Like you, I had felt so duped!

My feelings had been aimed at me for YEARS. I feel like it was my responsibility. If I was smart enough, understood enough, I could make things right. Until then, I wasn't smart enough and I didn't understand enough - I wasn't good enough!

It's not your fault Nancy. I know that may seem like a line from a movie right now and I can't wait to know you when you can feel it. You are smart though, you were human. You are good enough. The line that helped me from aiming at myself so much is "When you know better, you do better." It's so very true.

I've heard some folks try to argue with that line because there are murderers and rapists out there that hide what they do because they know it's wrong. I submit that even though they know it's wrong, that they didn't know better ("Better" being a noun).


Well, I don't believe in a devil anymore so where is all this pain coming from?

Life. People. The dog that bit, the cat that scratched, the horse that kicked...


I mean, my mother in law (God bless her) always believed that she could go sit it the middle of the busiest highway around here, but God would protect her and she wouldn't get hit by a car. How nuts is that. Well, thats what I am dealing with.

And if she had been hit (she more than likely would have been), those sharing her belief would either blame her for not being good enough, or God for not protecting her. God gave us life and freedom. Just as she is free to decide whether or not to sit in the street, the people on the road were free to decide how fast to drive or whether or not to get on a crowded highway (factors that would have contributed to her being hit). I don't think that the folks on the highway would have hit her on purpose, but I think that statistics were not in her favor.


But again, maybe in the end, that won't be a bad thing. I am here anyway, what ever shape I am.

Amen Nancy, you are a survivor not a victim!!! You are okay!


Somehow, I need to change my reality. And to get rid of the false hopes and the damage it has done. I just don't now how to do it.

I think your reality has changed. We first "realize", and then we "actualize". Now that you've realized freedom, what will you do with it? Maybe begin by forgiving yourself? When you know better, you do better.


I am broken. God knows it, and I know it. Maybe that is really the best thing that could have happened to me. We at least agree on this one thing.

That reminds me of another story :). Jacob was left alone one night and a man began to wrestle with him until daybreak. The man saw that he had not prevailed against Jacob and reached down, pulling Jacobs hip socket out of place (ouch!). Jacob still held on! The man said "Send Me away, for the dawn has ascended." Jacob refused unless the man blessed him. The man asked his name and he answered (Jacob). The man then said "Your name shall no longer be called Jacob, but Israel, because you have wrestled with God and with men, and have prevailed."

And Jacob asked for the man's name in return. The man said, "Why this that you ask about My name?" And He gave Jacob his blessing. Jacob called the name of the place "Face of God", because he saw God face to face, and his life was delivered.

Dear Nancy, the nation of God came to be through a broken man.

Amie

[backtothefuture]

Oh you guys,
You make me cry:) But in such a good way. You help me see that I am not going crazy. I am dealing with grief. Not just the deaths in our family, but the death of the Law and a religion that kept me in bondage for so long, I don't know who I am anymore or what I believe.
Amy, so many times this year,I have sat in my hot bath and talked to God and just said, what do you want from me, what do you want. Many times, I myself felt and still feel like I am fighting with the man like Jacob did. I was just talking to God about that today. And then saw it in your post.(maybe that is why my hips are hurting so badly these days!)
The bottom line Is I believe in God. I believe in his Son, but I don't know where to go from that.
Supposedly the biblical meaning for Nancy is Graceful! Maybe I will get a new name now. How wonderful would that be.
Thanks everyone who took the time to answer my post.
Nancy

[Infinite Grace]

The bottom line Is I believe in God. I believe in his Son, but I don't know where to go from that.

Jesus said that "eternal life is to know God, and Jesus Christ, whom he sent..." You're there.

Regarding your new name: here are some suggestions

Asenath - which means "she belongs to her father."
Apphia - which means "increasing."
Abigail - which means "my father is joy."

There are others. Here's the link: http://www.behindthename.com/

pick one and let us know.

[Infinite Grace]

By the way AMIE is a variant of Amy, which means "BELOVED"

[backtothefuture]

Thanks Ed,
I just got in for the night and its 10. past my bed time! Tomorrow I am going to look through names.
I did a class over the summer called Grace Works. On the last night we all picked a stone out of a big basket and put a name on it for ourselves. I keep mine in my purse and put the name courage on it.
I also have this small card with my name on it by my computer. It says Nancy and then underneath the biblical meaning "Graceful" and then this verse.
Whom have I in heaven but you? And earth has nothing I desire besides you. My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever. Psalm 73: 25-26
So maybe I will eventually be Nancy the graceful courageous one! I want with all my heart to be a woman of Grace. There is so much hurt in this world. I know that first hand. I look sometimes at my walk of suffering as for the greater good. My children. Hopefully they will Know the truth at a much younger age than myself. They will have their own hard path, and they also will have a praying mom, who as discouraged as she gets, still bows down, with sorrow sometimes, with humility and now with courage to come before the thrown of grace and make my petition known before God.
Thank you all.
Blessings
Nancy

[Infinite Grace]

Hey GRACEFUL COURAGEOUS ONE,
That's not your NEW name, you have been given the revelation of your REAL name. Your name means that you have "courage to be covered with Grace." You have received grace, and you will give grace. The things that you were courageous enough to go through in your life have prepared you to give grace to others who hurt. You can give them courage to walk in grace. You have been strengthened in your weakness, made a healer in your woundedness.

You are to be God's FACE, and his hands to others. That's God's promise to you.

I want you to know that as I wrote these words, such an incredible feeling of emotion came over me, I began to cry. I don't say that to sound holier-than-thou, just to let you know that I don't think these words had their origin in me, if you know what I mean. Receive this prophecy, and walk in it. God loves you, and so do ALL of us here at Talk-Grace.

[backtothefuture]

Ok,
So now Ed you are making me cry. Is that all you people do around here?:) Just kidding of course. Thanks for the kind words back. I know my journey has not been for nothing. Just harder at some times than others.
God let me get mad at him. He knew the brokenness of my heart and he didn't judge me or condemn me for that. He let me feel this year, and as hard as it was, that is what I needed to do.
Blessings to you all,
Love,
Nancy... the "graceful Courageous one"