Help with some questions

[Laren]

There is a lady i've been talking to from another forum who is interested in fulfilled eshcatology. She has a beautiful spirit and believes in UR, but has some good questions. I thought i'd post her questions here, and if any here can help answer them, she says she will check this forum as often as she can but is very busy right now. I also invited her to join.


Here is her first PM to me (by the way, she gave me permission to post these):

"Hi laren,

I have read some on talk grace a while back. I will read these things, it will just take a while. I am gone half of the time.

I use to post on Gospel For Today forum and discussed preterest with a couple of people on there. At that time I didn't believe any of this. It has just been recently that I came to see that there must have been a resurrection and second coming in the apostles day. Or something to this effect. I don't know about all things being fulfilled but I do believe a lot of the Bible has been fulfilled. I am still working on the ALL things. I guess you could call me a partial preterest.

CHB



"Thanks Laren, I have a couple more questions. What happens after death? Do we just go on to heaven when we die? If death is an enemy and it hasn't been destroyed..I mean as far as dying..then how do you explain that all has been fulfilled? Will the earth continue as it is now? Is there no end to dying, suffering, crying, and so forth? Sorry for so many questions but these things keep me thinking.

CHB"


would appreciate any help from you "veterans" if you don't mind.

thanks


laren

[Barry]

Hi Laren.

What happens after death?
The specifics are not given. In the context of our divine importance in our divine Identity, mortem is irrelevant to continuity.
Salvation in the scriptures was for this life.


Do we just go on to heaven when we die?
Yes because we are already in heaven relationship.
What we conceive ourselves to be and what we will afterward see ourselves to be may be entirely different.
Relevant in a small way as a child cannot see what it means to be an elderly person.


If death is an enemy and it hasn't been destroyed..I mean as far as dying..then how do you explain that all has been fulfilled?

The death that was destroyed in fulfillment was not physical death.
What died in the end of the age was the authority of the self defining ego identity.
That authority existed through the precedence of types and figures in the absence of a fulfilled revelation.

While in our present time not all at one time are current of that revelation, all do come into an understanding of that revelation. One's misunderstanding cannot change the reality of what is. Any more than one's disbelief changes what is.


Will the earth continue as it is now?
No not really. Fulfillment made a new beginning. The ending of one age was the beginning of another.

Our continued advancements, are visible in the printing press and the Internet. Such things manifest, in an outworking the divine truth of our oneness and interconnectedness.


Is there no end to dying, suffering, crying, and so forth?
How we see "problems" depends a lot on how we think about life in general.
We tend to think in terms of good and bad. As opposed to consciousness of divine importance.
Rain might be seen as good to the farmer, and bad to the brick maker. Both the Farmer and the Brick maker could see their divine importance and divine identity which could then offer a different perspective on the issues of rain and the sunshine.
Favorable or unfavorable toward farming or brick-making respectively. Making it neither good nor bad, neither good nor evil.

The Farmer tends to see themselves as a Farmer. This is not his or her divine identity but a temporal function.
With advancement irrigation and other things may aid in those temporal functions and Endeavors.
Such things create a new set of temporal circumstances which then can be addressed for what they are.

Don't know if this helps.
Barry

[Amie]

Laren,

I agree with Barry that the death that was defeated was not biological death. I see it in a few ways though.

#1 (Copy/pasted from another thread) To me, the old testament folks feared death because they could not see beyond biological life. The word "sheol" translated "hell" and "grave" literally means "unanswerable" and "unseen". They therefore feared it immensely and were controlled by those who they felt had power over life and death (temple priests and judges and such). As soon as Jesus revealed more to them, they were loosed from that fear. So, I do see things differently and am assured by Jesus's resurrection that there is life beyond what we are able to see. That is not to say that I am steady and do not need to give myself that assurance. Again though, that's just me :).

So people were freed from the bondage of the fear of biological death which began in the garden where Adam and Eve first hid out of fear.

#2 Relationally Adam and Eve lost any sort of connection that they may have had before with God. They took God's instructions and imposed them upon themselves as law in ruling that there was something to be afraid or ashamed of. Their own ruling was: "unworthy of love".

Jesus took this shame upon himself (ie Psalms 22 that he quoted at the cross). If Jesus was the first of many sons and daughters of God and not God himself, then he stood in front of God and everyone in his shame and demonstrated to the world that God would still accept us. If Jesus was God manifest, then God allowed himself to experience our shame in front of everyone, literally openly putting himself in our shoes, and took responsibility for it all.. coming to terms with himself basically.

I suspect that it is somewhere in the middle of those explanations, yet I think that it is most important to note that Jesus openly came for the sinners. That word ("sinner") is downplayed a lot these days imo. It represented the "unclean" to the hearers. It was the worst of the worst and in our day might mean Hitler, Saddam, pedophiles, rapists, etc. The reaction of the people then was that they were appalled. Some of them ripped their robes they were so angry (ie Matthew 26:65).

Jesus responded to the ruling, "not worthy of love" with, "Hello Unworthy, my child". We do not have to be worthy - and that solved the relational death which occurred in the garden.

#3 Nationally Israel was promised that if they could keep their promises to God, that they would be priests and kings. Bascially, they would be the means to an end (reconnection with God to the world). However, the promise only mean a partial life for them, like walking dead people. They were nationally as piles of bones (Ezekiel 37), awaiting a resurrection.

Jesus kept Israel's promise and God kept his promise through Jesus. The defeat of their national death meant the defeat of relational death, and the defeat of the power of biological death. Every sort of death was defeated/destroyed, however that does not necessitate that every sort of death ended.. though the stronghold of death is gone, and that will only affect everything imv.


What happens after death? Do we just go on to heaven when we die?

Heaven can be experienced on earth and is being manifested for that reason. However, earth is not heaven itself but a means to commune with it, and "yes", we go to heaven when we die. I do not equate "heaven" with "utopia" however. It is the residence of God and is here, and elsewhere.


Will the earth continue as it is now?

If there is one thing that is certain, it is change. Regardless of eschatology, Jesus impacted the world and that cannot be undone, right?


Is there no end to dying, suffering, crying, and so forth?

It seems to me that the end of biological death would mean the end of biological life as well and for as long as there is human life forms, we will cry and suffer and die, that is true.

It is also true that human beings learn. If a loved one dies, it is a hard truth to accept. Many of us go through some common stages in accepting it. We deny, blame, get angry, mourn.. In the world as it were, there was no hope obtained. How different it would be to experience loss, and no unconditional love. How hard to even process the truth.

I don't know that not a single soul on earth experienced unconditional love before the revelation of Jesus. In the bible story, it isn't a reality until then and isn't it true that the spotlight was historically shown on Jesus?

Hoping to hear other thoughts as well.. (what are yours Laren?)

Amie

[What is truth?]

I am not a teacher but still in the learning mode. However, the concept of going to heaven/an eternal paradise/afterlife can be found in the cultural background of all civilizations.
Other than the term "heaven" used in Biblicial writings as an allegory, similtude or parable, I know of no scripture which addresses the natural heaven as an eternal home for an immortal soul or the spirit of man.
Sue

[LOISCAROL]

"WOW", Sue, all I can say is "WOW." My studies have brought me to the same conclusion. IMHO when people see the word "heaven" they read into it what they have heard, rather than letting the scriptures explain the meanings. "Traditions of men" teachings are quite different than biblical teachings on the subject.

LOIS CAROL