Holy Spirit

[backtothefuture]

Before Jesus went away he told his followers they would not be left comfortless. At Pentecost the Holy Spirit was given. Does this Holy Spirit still comfort us today and help us in our journey?
Blessings,
Nancy

[Jaytouhare]

I really don't think so. If you have to ask a question like this, it seems to me that you already have your answer.

[Paige]

Nancy,

The way I see it, the HS was the down payment for what God promised would come fully at the end of the age. I believe that God indwells each one of us, and our comfort/wisdom etc. is drawn from the source of God Who is all in all. Make sense?

Paige

[Amie]

Ecc 4 (vs 1 speaks of "comfort") talks about the works of man and those who were oppressed not having a comforter.


Lam 1:1 How alone sits the city that was full of people! She has become like a widow, once great among the nations; a noblewoman among the provinces has become a payer of tribute.
Lam 1:2 She bitterly weeps in the night, and her tears are on her cheeks. She has no comforter among all her lovers. All her friends dealt deceitfully with her; they became enemies to her.


Lam 1:7 In the days of her affliction and her wandering, Jerusalem remembers all her desirable things from previous days, when her people fell into the hand of the foe; and there is no ally for her. The foes saw her; they laughed at her annihilations.
Lam 1:8 Jerusalem has grievously sinned; on account of this, she has been removed. All the ones knowing her despise her, for they saw her nakedness. Also, she groans and turns backward.
Lam 1:9 Her uncleanness is in her skirts. She did not remember her end and has gone down astoundingly. She had no comforter. O Jehovah, behold my affliction, for the enemy has magnified himself.
Lam 1:10 The enemy has spread out his hand on all her desirable things. Indeed, she has seen the nations enter into her holy place, whom You commanded that they not enter into Your congregation.

Jerusalem laid with other nations, equaling idolatry/adultery. She wept for none of her lovers could comfort her. What was it she was seeking though? In what way was she oppressed?

She cries:


Lam 1:19 I called for my lovers; they deceived me. My priests and my elders expired in the city, while they sought food for them to bring back their life.
Lam 1:20 Behold, O Jehovah, for I am distressed. My inward parts ferment; my heart is overturned within me; for I have grievously rebelled. On the outside the sword bereaves; in the house it is as death.
Lam 1:21 They hear that I sigh; there is no comforter to me. All my enemies have heard my evil; they rejoice that You have done it. You will bring the day that You have called, and they shall be like me.
Lam 1:22 Let all their evil come before You; and do to them as You have done to me for all my transgressions. For my sighs are many, and my heart is faint.

She has been lied to and deceived, yet in John 14:16 and 17, Jesus says, "And I will petition the Father, and He will give you another Comforter, that He may remain with you to the age, the Spirit of Truth, whom the world cannot receive because it does not see Him nor know Him. But you know Him, for He abides with you and shall be in you."

How is the truth a comfort?

In John 14:26 Jesus continues to assure his disciples and tells them that the comforter would be sent by the Father in his name and "He shall teach you all things and shall remind you of all things that I said to you."

They could find assurance in the truth, they could hope for the soon coming fulfillment.

I will ask you this dear sis Nancy, what has been revealed to you that they were hoping for? What does the spirit say in your heart?

Amie

[backtothefuture]

My heart tells me Amie, That God loves me and that is my comfort.
My eyes have been opened to this revelation as I have walked many a long road.
For me, I like to think that God or the Holy Spirit does dwell in me because of all that has been fulfilled for me and everyone else.
I still in my lamenting, want and do feel that comfort. For reasons I can't always explain.
I really liked how Jesus used the word comforter. I have been thinking about that a lot lately. Sometimes I feel out of control with my thoughts and I have to really work hard at taking back the comfort that is here for me.
Thanks all for your input.
Blessings
Nancy

[Me Again]

I was watching, with my son, a Rob Bell NOOMA video tonight. It's called Breathe. In it he brings up the point of God's breath being spirit. Even God's name YWHW is actually 4 letters that have a "breathiness" to their pronunciation.

I think that the whole concept of spirit=breath=comfort is simply the knowledge that God is present. He is everywhere, and in everything. The promise of His coming in AD70 was that God would be "all in all." Read those three words independently of one another. I think too many Christians, including preterists AND fulfilled gracers read this as if it were a complete phrase. It is not. It says that God would be ALL. Where would He be ALL? In ALL. God is ALL...in...ALL.

So, when God "formed" (a covenantal word - "he formed a covenant with...") Adam from "the dust of the ground" (humanity), He breathed into Adam the BREATH/SPIRIT/COMFORT of LIFE. This was covenant LIFE. And actually, the bible never says that Adam LOST that spirit, but simply that Adam died spiritually. Later, in Christ, God revived/resurrected that spirit/breath: "and Jesus breathed on them and said 'receive the holy breath.'"

Now God, through His breath, is EVERYTHING in EVERYONE. His spirit/breath is again in ALL humanity, for OUR Adam rose from the DEAD; conquering death. His resurrection meant that his spirit never died, and he lives forever. We are now reconciled to God through Jesus and his Eve/Israel/Church. Grace has been poured out on all, because breath has been breathed on all.

[immortalson]

nancy,
I think that the answers you seek are within you. this journey you are on is not from here to there (doctrines of man) but rather from without to within.
Blessing,
Barb

[LOISCAROL]

Hello Nancy:
You referenced
John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless, I will come to you".

In John 13 and 14 Jesus is talking and comforting his apostles during and after the Last Supper telling them about his departure.

The word "comfortless" in the Greek 3737 means "bereft of a teacher, guide, guardian". "bereft means deprived of". Therefore he was telling them because he was departing, they would not be left without a teacher or guide.

Now what is our teacher/guide today? The answer is the scriptures.

Jesus told his apostles in John 14:26 "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you"

Take the time and look up the word Comforter Greek 3875. Also it would be good to read the complete chapter of John 14.

John 15:26 "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the "Spirit of truth", which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me".

What testifies to us today about the teachings of Christ? The scriptures.

The scriptures talk about the apostles/teachers being given the "earnest of the Spirit". It would help you to look up Greek 728 regarding "earnest of the Spirit".

The scriptures teach "God is a Spirit" The Holy Spirit is the character/frame of mind of God (no carnality) that we can learn by the study of the scriptures. The knowledge and understanding of his Holy Spirit can then be applied to our spirit which is our character/frame of mind (carnal) and enable us to crucify the works of the flesh" and enjoy the "fruits of the spirit".

2nd Timothy talks about "ever learning and never able to come to the knowedge of the truth".

Proverbs 3 says "Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own undrestanding". In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths".

The word "acknowledge" Hebrew 3045 means:
learn to know, perceive and see, find out and discern.

The scriptures also says "Be not conformed to this world, but be ye transformed "by the renewing of your mind" that ye may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God".

It is good to have a place where we can communicate with others regarding the scriptures. However, we need to do our part by looking into the scriptures ourselves because "truth is not learned it is self-taught".

For many years I did not know the importance of looking into the scriptures for myself. I only took someone elses word for the meaning etc.
When I did begin to study for myself, I found I had been taught a lot of false information, traditons of men rather than the Spirit of God.

Thanks for listening
LOIS CAROL

[Amie]

Wow,

I like the diverse thoughts. I think that everyone is right.


Heb 8:8 For finding fault, He said to them, "Behold, days are coming, says the Lord, and I will make an end on the house of Israel and on the house of Judah; a new covenant shall be,
Heb 8:9 not according to the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day of My taking hold of their hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I did not regard them, says the Lord.
Heb 8:10 Because this is the covenant which I will covenant with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord, giving My Laws into their mind, and I will write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be My people."
Heb 8:11 "And they shall no more teach each one their neighbor, and each one his brother, saying, Know the Lord; because all shall know Me, from the least of them to their great ones.
Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousnesses, and I will not at all remember their sins and their lawless deeds." LXX-Jer. 38:31-34; MT-Jer. 31:31-34

For one, God is in the heart and mind. Yet for two, the testimony of that is found in the Scriptures.

Testimony doesn't discount the reality of heart and mind, and heart and mind doesn't remove the testimony.

Cool.

Amie

[LOISCAROL]

John 14:6
"Jesus saith unto him (Thomas) I am the WAY, the TRUTH and the life, no man cometh unto the Father, but by me".

Way - Greek 3598 Way, course of conduct, way of thinking, feeling deciding.

Truth - John 17:17 Jesus praying for his disciples "sanctify" (set them apart, purify) them through thy truth, THY WORD IS TRUTH".


John 6:63 Jesus speaking to his disciples "It is the spirit that quickeneth, (Gives Life) the flesh profiteth nothing, the WORDS THAT I SPEAK UNTO YOU, THEY ARE SPIRIT AND THEY ARE LIFE".

LOIS CAROL

[Paige]

Ditto the Wow for me too! Everyone has had such great thoughts to share.

Ed said:

I was watching, with my son, a Rob Bell NOOMA video tonight. It's called Breathe. In it he brings up the point of God's breath being spirit. Even God's name YWHW is actually 4 letters that have a "breathiness" to their pronunciation.

I think that the whole concept of spirit=breath=comfort is simply the knowledge that God is present. He is everywhere, and in everything. The promise of His coming in AD70 was that God would be "all in all." Read those three words independently of one another. I think too many Christians, including preterists AND fulfilled gracers read this as if it were a complete phrase. It is not. It says that God would be ALL. Where would He be ALL? In ALL. God is ALL...in...ALL.

So, when God "formed" (a covenantal word - "he formed a covenant with...") Adam from "the dust of the ground" (humanity), He breathed into Adam the BREATH/SPIRIT/COMFORT of LIFE. This was covenant LIFE. And actually, the bible never says that Adam LOST that spirit, but simply that Adam died spiritually. Later, in Christ, God revived/resurrected that spirit/breath: "and Jesus breathed on them and said 'receive the holy breath.'"

Now God, through His breath, is EVERYTHING in EVERYONE. His spirit/breath is again in ALL humanity, for OUR Adam rose from the DEAD; conquering death. His resurrection meant that his spirit never died, and he lives forever. We are now reconciled to God through Jesus and his Eve/Israel/Church. Grace has been poured out on all, because breath has been breathed on all.

Simply amazing, Bro!!!

Paige

[backtothefuture]

I so do appreciate all that responded to this thread. Ed, I loved everything you had to say. Amie, I have re-read what you wrote several times. Lois Carol, I read John 14 today and the entire book of Galatians for some reason.
Barb, I hope I can figure out what it is I am searching for.

I feel like right now I am in a state of Trauma due to 3 gone badly root canals. I have had constant pain for 10 weeks. I went to my Dr on Wednesday and told him I thought I was having a breakdown. What happens then is fear takes over and I go back into some of my fundamental thinking because thats what I was in for so long. So I start asking for things like Spirit of the living God, fall fresh on me. I start wanting to be anointed in oil, anything that will bring me comfort. But those things don't work for me and never have. So today I just sang on my guitar and lamented all my fears to God. I feel so hopeless today. I blame myself for not being able to keep it all together and yet my body has been in major trauma for this entire year really.

Barb, I did get 2 books you recommended and really enjoyed them.
And yet, Somehow I feel the trauma I am feeling now is perhaps related to past trauma that I can't put my finger on. Maybe I am feeling like David when he cried out to God, to create in me a clean heart and renew a right spirit within me. Caste me not away from thy presence and take not thy holy spirit from me.
When I feel this fearful, I am worried that God has abandoned me. There I said it! It always comes back to abandonment. My fundamental walk left me so broken. My physical walk even more. I try and try to read the Bible from the fulfilled view and I just don't catch on as fast as most of you, but I see truth in what most everyone says here.
Gosh, I am just a nut case tonight:confused:
Anyway, I do appreciate everything that has been said.
Blessings,
Nancy

[LOISCAROL]

Nancy, my heart aches for you. I understand what you are talking about.
I too had the fundamental thinking for so long, that when I took the time and effort for the scriptures to speak to me, I to felt fear, because what I found the scriptures were teaching was so different than what I had built my faith on. I felt like an outcast and sometimes like I was loosing my mind. A lot of my friends and family actually thought and still do at times think that I have lost my mind.

You said you felt like David. The only advice I can give you is to get you a good concordance, and spend the time and effort looking into the scriptures yourself. Until I did this, I was always confused.

What I needed to do was not to look to the natural, but to seek spiritual healing from the scriptures. Healing of the mind/heart.

It has been a long journey, 30 plus years since I began my seeking of the truth, I shed many tears, had many fears, but I can tell you I am today much stronger, physically, mentally and spiritually due to the journey.

THANKS FOR SHARING YOUR THOUGHTS ETC.
LOIS CAROL