For even the small?

[Amie]

Update on the last semi-crisis: Bryan successfully repaired our van last weekend -- took him a while to get the timing right but he did it.

Sulley is our golden retriever. My son's name is Mike -- get it? "Mike and Sulley" -- "Monsters Inc"? Anyway, he's 3 years old now and came in last night and vomited violently practically all night. The first bout contained a chewed black.. what looked like a half of a handle of some sort.

We thought it was over this morning, but he proved us wrong. By 4pm he couldn't get up anymore. We took him to the vet. The x-rays are not conclusive (his bowel may be obstructed) and he is very dehydrated. They are keeping him on an IV overnight and doing another set of x-rays in the AM. Please put a place for Sulley in your hearts and thoughts. He is very dear to us.

Amie

[Paige]

Will be praying, Amie.

[Laren]

Praying for the WHOLE family.

Laren

[Amie]

The vet called this AM and he is feeling better now that he is hydrated again. Most of the worrisome parts of his intestines have calmed (they were enlarged some) except for one small part that still has her somewhat concerned. They're going to give him some food and if he can't hold it, they're going to use barium to dye his tummy and hopefully see what's in there once and for all.

Amie

[Amie]

Sulley is home with some antibiotics and prescription dogfood. He should be fine :).

And, on the way to get him my van broke down again. The timing chain/belt thingy is fine still, but now it is not getting fuel. :(.

I'm pretty stressed..

Amie

[backtothefuture]

Hi Amie,
Last night on the news here they had a doctor that had seen the first ever case of influenza in dogs. I don't know if that could be part of your doggies problem.
Praying for you all.
Nancy

[Cathy]

Hi all,
This topic is just right for some questions I have. Hope you don't mind Amie if I take this in a different direction, just for a minute. Please keep us posted on how you pup is doing. We have a dog, a beagle mix, and we love her too!

OK, my question is on prayer. Do we pray to see God do something that He might not have done, if we had not prayed for it? Does prayer actually cause or move God to act on our behalf where He would not have otherwise. ?? If no one had prayed for your dog, Amie, would his condition have worsened??

My "praying" has evolved over time to mostly just being with Him. I'd even stopped saying to others as I often had in the past, "I'll be praying for you", but offered my concern and help right there. Do our prayers actually cause God to do something?:confused: Is this a personal thing for each person that God reveals as to whether our prayers can effect some kind of action?

Also, maybe this topic is on another thread that I've missed. I would love to read what others thoughts are on this. So that's it. Thanks for your thoughts. ~ Cathy

[Jotham]

...My "praying" has evolved over time to mostly just being with Him. I'd even stopped saying to others as I often had in the past, "I'll be praying for you", but offered my concern and help right there...My "Praying" has evolved in similar ways to your quote here Cathy. For myself, IMO, prayer is more for us than for God. IOW, i may ask for prayer in order to feel better, feel loved, etc... above what i might actually feel the given need being met means to me (don't know if i've worded that right?). Sometimes i would get so stressed out and feeling so alone that i had to include others in my situation so i'd ask for prayer . . . and that brought me comfort. We all know the story of "faith of a mustard seed"...so according to that prayer (one would necessarily have to have faith to pray) can move God...well, at least a mountain.
; )

[Me Again]

I would say that scripture seems to indicate that, in some way, our prayers cause God to act. There are a number of times in the bible where it says that God repented based on the prayer of a righteous man.

However, what does prayer look like? Could "praying without ceasing" simply be hanging out with God? And perhaps, just like when we are hanging out with others we know, there may be quiet, or there may be conversation. Why do we make prayer so complicated?

For the record, I try to pray with my kids, just to give them an awareness of God's presence. I am a functional Christian, not a functional agnostic; so, I pray, whether for me or God, I don't know - actually, I don't care. I just do it. But that's me.

ed

[Cathy]

Why do we make prayer so complicated?


I agree. Where I use to church there was an ongoing prayer list where people or circumstances were prayed for until there was an acceptable answer, I think. Heck, I was one of those prayer warriors and proud of it! (sorry:o)
I guess what's is really bugging me is if God responds to our prayers for ourselves and others by giving us what we ask for, then there is so much that I've missed by not praying more specifically. For instance, my son broke his collarbone while riding his motorcycle, so yes, I brought this before God asking that He would take care of him and that my son would heal well. But, you know, if I thought that his healing depended on my prayers , I would be frantic with worry...was I praying correctly, did I pray enough, etc. etc. I've got to trust that if I pray or don't pray, God, who is love, will do what is best, because He is a God of love.
Sometimes I worry that I should be covering all the bases when I pray, so those whom I love will be protected, blessed, etc. and if I don't, they won't be. Know what I mean?

[Cathy]

prayer is more for us than for God. IOW, i may ask for prayer in order to feel better, feel loved, etc..

Yes, I do understand. We feel that we're not alone when we share with others what we're going through. We feel cared for and loved. I can understand what your saying here and would agree. It's just praying because I want a certain outcome to happen that has me concerned.

[Paige]

I wonder, though, if I may throw this out here without causing any discomfort...

I've been hearing a lot about the collective conscious. Could sharing our concerns with others and asking for prayer be part of our own creative ability? This could be seen as God working through each one of us to bring about the answers and solutions we are seeking. I would still say that sometimes we don't know what is "right" or "best." Prayer would help us in accepting the outcome that God brings through us.

Does that sound too weird?

Paige

[Amie]

Personally, I don't necessarily kneel in prayer. I feel that God is in constant connection with my heart and feel that he understands me. No matter the outcome, I felt strengthened with the metaphorical hands of my friends in mine.

I rarely even talk to God out loud - usually that is in strong circumstances whether good or bad for some reason.

However.. Our children know that we will feed them, that we know what is best for them food wise and may say "no" when they ask for food -- but they still ask. Why do you think that is? I'm serious..

Amie

[Cathy]

However.. Our children know that we will feed them, that we know what is best for them food wise and may say "no" when they ask for food -- but they still ask. Why do you think that is? I'm serious..


I guess because it's something they desire or feel it couldn't hurt to ask...maybe they'll get it. Clearly what we think is best for our kids and what they think is best don't always line up. I got myself hung up on prayer being a working thing. That my Father doesn't love me enough to know what is best and I need to work hard enough to convince him of what to do. The Father/child relationship I think sums it all up. It's in that relationship of trust that I know all things will be ok even if they don't seem to be. I'd lost the view of love and got filled with fear. Fear that if I didn't do my part, God wouldn't do His. I think that was about it. Perfect love casts out all fear, right? Funny how fear can change your whole perspective. Thanks for all the thoughts that were shared. By the way, I've got an upcoming surgery...sure would appreciate your prayers of love and concern.:)

[Laren]

I think prayer can be a way to surrender the will of our "ego" to the Father, and to connect on a relationship level, and to find peace. Or it can be a maneuver to feed the ego, which despite the prayer often leads to anxiety.

Prayer that is directed to God to change circumstances, is imo really ego driven in the sense of the "circumstance" has power over my peace; and if God changes the circumstance, then i'll be peaceful.


Prayer that is directed to the father, in "not my will but your will", and thanking Him for is presence and the friendship we have in during this circumstance; enhances relationship and peace. Or praying for another person to find peace among the trials.


But I also am thankful that God is "big enough" to look at my "ego" driven prayers and smile upon me and still give me a big hug.

a few verses i thought of

NEVERTHELESS, NOT AS I WILL, BUT AS THOU WILL" (Matt. 26:36-39).

"For I came down from heaven, not to do Mine Own will, but the will of HIM THAT SENT ME" (John 6:38).

"Thy will be done in earth as it is in heaven"

"Be rejoicing in the Lord always! Again, I will declare, be rejoicing! Let your lenience be known to all men: The Lord is near. DO NOT WORRY ABOUT ANYTHING, but in everything, by prayer and petition, WITH THANKSGIVING, let your requests be made known to God, and the peace of God, that is superior to every frame of mind, shall be garrisoning your hearts and your apprehensions in Christ Jesus.

(Phil. 4-9, Concordant Literal N.T.).


"the God of peace will be with you."

"Trust in the Lord with all your heart"

[ozark]

I think prayer can be a way to surrender the will of our "ego" to the Father, and to connect on a relationship level, and to find peace. Or it can be a maneuver to feed the ego, which despite the prayer often leads to anxiety.

Prayer that is directed to God to change circumstances, is imo really ego driven in the sense of the "circumstance" has power over my peace; and if God changes the circumstance, then i'll be peaceful.


Prayer that is directed to the father, in "not my will but your will", and thanking Him for is presence and the friendship we have in during this circumstance; enhances relationship and peace. Or praying for another person to find peace among the trials.


But I also am thankful that God is "big enough" to look at my "ego" driven prayers and smile upon me and still give me a big hug.



This is an excellent observation, IMO. I think at times we ask God for something to replace Him. We want whatever it is to complete us. I think if we would simply realize what God wants to give us most is Himself, life would not be so mysterious.

It is amazing that even when are prayers are ego driven, God still gives us the "big hug." He has answered our prayer, but at times we cannot see it.

I think a good example of this is found in John six. This chapter takes place over two days. The first day Jesus fills the peoples stomachs with a great miracle. The second day they want more, but He does not give it to them. Instead, He offers the bread of life. To give them more of what they wanted would be counter productive the second day. This chapter is also a good study in the differences between the old and new covenant. The blessing of the old was to fill the belly. The blessing of the new is to fill the soul.

[Amie]

Cathy,

I can relate to what you're saying. I used to think also, that if there was something that I forgot to apologize for that it would be held against me as an unforgiven sin. I never really thought past my fears and my shame. I hid my face from God because I felt like a failure, I feared messing up and not catching it (and getting it right from that point on) - I never imagined past that that I can think of right now. I DO remember the impact of my husband's questions like "Do you REALLY think that God didn't already account for your mistakes?"

He was raised Catholic and I was protestant. Even though he wasn't indoctrinated and involved, there were issues that we just didn't see eye to eye on. I don't know if he feared it for me, but I feared God sending him to hell. One of those questions were "Do you REALLY think that God would send one of us to hell for being wrong?" He often came at me with his and God's "understanding".

There were a few contributing factors which drove me to the (I'm going to say it!!) Universalist position. I was raised pretty much with the fulfilled view already -- I say "pretty much" because ongoing redemption, judgment, condemnation, etc is not really the belief that everything is fulfilled. That said, one contributing factor was my son asking me if he should fear hell. I searched the bible and bugged the heck out of some of the folks who are here at Talk-Grace. I already understood about a lot of it, but believed that the lake of fire was an afterlife and ongoing event. It was freeing to learn that I was wrong about both.

Another contributing factor was my husband stubbornly clinging to this "understanding" between he and God. I feverishly searched the Scriptures to show him the performance stuff he was supposed to be doing and keeping audience relevance in mind (another contributing factor and how I was raised to read it), I discovered that I was wrong about that stuff too. I was so happy! My heart was validated.

But, I had related to God as "Father" as I understood a father to be - my dad. My dad hasn't spoken to me in gosh, 11 years now because I couldn't meet his conditions (if that tells you anything). I feel sad for him because he felt like a failure every time he was moved with compassion. It was better that me and my mistakes (and some were his) were written off.

As my hubby matured (and still matures), I see what he wants and what he strives to be as a father. He tells me that a father would NEVER throw their child in a burning pit and if my dad was not with his own issues, he would listen to his heart too. That's just one thing -- I love to hear him go on about fathers, and I love to hear the vocal fathers around here talk. Relating to God as a father is a beautiful thing - like the loving fathers that I know.

My studies have also revealed that I can relate to God as a mom. I know my heart for my children.

I went off on a bit of a ramble there. I'm really glad that you took this thread in a new direction. As you go through your hardship in surgery, my hand is in your hand - I am with you in spirit.


Laren,

WELL said imo!

Amie

[Jotham]

...It's just praying because I want a certain outcome to happen that has me concerned.Early on in my "walk" i witnessed in my life so many times that my requests got me into a heap of trouble. I'm not saying that i don't pray specifics at this point, but like Laren's great post ( some of which is quoted below ) i now ALWAYS close with a; "Lord you know what is best for me, do as you please" or similar.


...I've been hearing a lot about the collective conscious. Could sharing our concerns with others and asking for prayer be part of our own creative ability?..I've been studying along with some here on the Tolle stuff, and while i've not arrived at any personal decision on what needs to be filtered out of the teachings, i can say that i'm not comforted by the thought of the "collective consciousness" idea if it carries us beyond some simple metaphysical connection with other loving beings. IOW, i know that some like Tolle & Cohen press the idea that "WE", the "Collective" are god. Anyway, i'm just rambling and still thinking through much of this and similar teachings.


I think prayer can be a way to surrender the will of our "ego" to the Father...Prayer that is directed to the father, in "not my will but your will", and thanking Him for is presence and the friendship we have in during this circumstance; enhances relationship and peace...Great post Laren !!! I think our ego has much to do with how we approach God in prayer in a given instance.

Thom

[Paige]

I've been studying along with some here on the Tolle stuff, and while i've not arrived at any personal decision on what needs to be filtered out of the teachings, i can say that i'm not comforted by the thought of the "collective consciousness" idea if it carries us beyond some simple metaphysical connection with other loving beings. IOW, i know that some like Tolle & Cohen press the idea that "WE", the "Collective" are god.

I agree. The way my simple mind works, we are partakers of God in that He dwells in us. I also think the NT points out that we are in Him. However, I wouldn't limit God to only dwelling in us. I think He can be beyond us at the same time. Does that make any sense?

Paige

[Amie]

I agree. The way my simple mind works, we are partakers of God in that He dwells in us. I also think the NT points out that we are in Him. However, I wouldn't limit God to only dwelling in us. I think He can be beyond us at the same time. Does that make any sense?

Paige

That makes perfect sense to me Paige and I agree also.

I think that the "collective conscious" can be one of bondage via law from external places. It is a trained group imv.. doing what they do because they are supposed to or have to.

However, liberty transforms us into painters of the same canvas (we all inhabit this universe), all having different strokes, color preferences, etc. Individuality blooms a more beautiful garden.. a paradise even.

Amie

[Laren]

I think that the "collective conscious" can be one of bondage via law from external places. It is a trained group imv.. doing what they do because they are supposed to or have to.


Amie

Amie, what do you mean by this??

[Amie]

Laren,

I'm not sure how to communicate the thought that I'm having clearly - I guess that showed! lol! Umm..

If you are a Star Trek fan at all, you may be familiar with "The Borg"? They were most definately a collective consciousness, yet void of individuality. Everyone does what they are supposed to do and anyone that they run into is "assimilated". An eerie-ish moment was when someone would ask the name of an individual and the reply from that individual would be "We are Borg".

That's one way to see it. When someone falls out of line there isn't mercy or compassion because that creates a breakdown in the "collective". That reminds me of the system within Israel meant to represent something inherant to humanity as a whole - the system of "good and evil". "Resistance is futile", lol!

I think that the revelation that God is merciful, loving, compassionate, etc blew all of that thinking.

I hope that makes more sense, please feel free to let me know if it doesn't - I like to talk :D.

Amie