Question....

[Dallas]

I believe that in AD 70 all eschatology and redemtion through reconcilliation took place... we seem to agree. (Me vs. Pantalist)

I also belive that all things are fulfilled, all people are now saved and all have been included into the fulfillment.

Where does that fit within pantelism doctrine.

[Barry]

I believe that in AD 70 all eschatology and redemtion through reconcilliation took place... we seem to agree. (Me vs. Pantalist)

I also belive that all things are fulfilled, all people are now saved and all have been included into the fulfillment.

Where does that fit within pantelism doctrine.

Typically I do not use the word "pantelism" but have nothing against it, I just use "fulfillment" or "common grace". Also you might get a few different slants on the matter here Dallas so I'll speak from my own perspective.

Our similarities are abundant I'm sure.

Some of our definitions might or might not differ a bit.
IMO salvation was for this life. IMO it was not for the purpose of getting to heaven.

Salvation was in a sense from the "law" and the whole of the old economy. In this sense all are saved as the law was fulfilled and the old covenant world passed away.
While those who had much confidence in it, were sorely disappointed at the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem, even they were saved from the old in the passing away of that world.

In another sense people can still have a salvation like experience as one might come to a realization of the truth of God's love.

A saying I like is that Unity is not made (by us) but realized.

IMHO we do not inherit as the first century Christians did, but are rather now benefactors of their inheritance.

Just a few thoughts,
Perhaps some others will expound a bit better or have some other ideas.

In the end I believe that we are "focused" and "after" the same basic things.

Blessings Barry

[Me Again]

I believe that in AD 70 all eschatology and redemtion through reconcilliation took place... we seem to agree. (Me vs. Pantalist)

I also belive that all things are fulfilled, all people are now saved and all have been included into the fulfillment.

Where does that fit within pantelism doctrine.

Dallas, I cannot speak for pantelism - probably only Davo can do that - but, I would say that fundamentally your views are consistent with pantelism. The only issue that Davo might take up with you concerns your choice of the word "saved," because he sees "salvation" as specific to those who believe and are thus "ordained" to serve as kings and priests of our God to the rest of creation.

That's largely a semantic issue, and I have no dog in that fight.

[Dallas]

Hello;

Barry, surprisingly for me, you didnt say anything that I disagree with. Thats not common.

Me Again... you bring up a good point that Barry also touched on..

There are two words used in the new testament, one I believe is referring to the old covenant and that would be saved. The other salvation and that is referring to the everlasting covenant...

The everlasting covenant of the promise of reconcilliation made to Abraham in Gen 17.

God promised to include Abram into the things he was doing (the things of God) and that God had recreated him as perfected (the life of God).


Saved is referring to the immediate destruction upon Israel... to be removed from danger and put into a safe place.

Salvation, so-zo in the greek meaning the things and life of...

[davo]

I also belive that all things are fulfilled, all people are now saved and all have been included into the fulfillment.

Where does that fit within pantelism doctrine.G'day Dallas… as you can tell from Barry and Ed's replies "pantelism" per se is a bit of a loose term around here – we all tend to hold next to similar views as each other, though we might describe one or two things differently, but like Ed pointed out it's mainly semantics. Although I myself run pantelism.com I'm only one among others here who accept the "fulfilled view" that sees both eschatology AND redemption as complete – the end result being the reconciliation of all. Having said that, folks are no more bound to "pantelism" than to "fulfilled", "infinite" or "common grace" etc as all these terms pretty much express where we share our commonalities as opposed to our differences.

What I personally like about the term pantelism [derived from the Greek pan-teles] is that "for me" it describes in one word an approach to eschatology and redemption that sees both of them together in biblical fulfilment. There is no ongoing fulfilment but rather the perpetual effect of fulfillment, that where BECAUSE OF Israel's redemption reconciliation came to the world. As Ed alluded to – "I" tend to see "salvation" [apart from the literal escape from the AD66-70 tribulations] as what those who realise their reconciliation come into in life and thus serve God by serving other in whatever way that might be. But all these terms can and do in certain contexts cross across each other with similar meanings, so yeah some of it is semantics, and so nothing to die for. :cool:

Hope that makes sense.

[Lou]

G'day Dallas… as you can tell from Barry and Ed's replies "pantelism" per se is a bit of a loose term around here – we all tend to hold next to similar views as each other, though we might describe one or two things differently, but like Ed pointed out it's mainly semantics. Although I myself run pantelism.com I'm only one among others here who accept the "fulfilled view" that sees both eschatology AND redemption as complete – the end result being the reconciliation of all. Having said that, folks are no more bound to "pantelism" than to "fulfilled", "infinite" or "common grace" etc as all these terms pretty much express where we share our commonalities as opposed to our differences.

What I personally like about the term pantelism [derived from the Greek pan-teles] is that "for me" it describes in one word an approach to eschatology and redemption that sees both of them together in biblical fulfilment. There is no ongoing fulfilment but rather the perpetual effect of fulfillment, that where BECAUSE OF Israel's redemption reconciliation came to the world. As Ed alluded to – "I" tend to see "salvation" [apart from the literal escape from the AD66-70 tribulations] as what those who realise their reconciliation come into in life and thus serve God by serving other in whatever way that might be. But all these terms can and do in certain contexts cross across each other with similar meanings, so yeah some of it is semantics, and so nothing to die for. :cool:

Hope that makes sense.



imo the “perpetual effect” is the common bond that the forum leaders at Talk Grace have.

We may use different terms and seem to have somewhat differences but our core belief of that God has done through Covenants and Christ is the same.

[Amie]

Yep Dallas -

Looks like you fit in around here :).

Amie