to thine own self

[Amie]

It may be out of context because I never read "Hamlet", but the title is from the quote "This above all to thine own self be true."

If a person were to make a choice based on what others might think, are they being true to themselves? Is it just performance? Or is it more complicated than all that?

Like what if you really didn't want to go to a dinner party but you knew that a friend would be there that valued your being there, and who had always been there for you?

Amie

[Lauri]

Amie you asked:

If a person were to make a choice based on what others might think, are they being true to themselves? Is it just performance? Or is it more complicated than all that?

Like what if you really didn't want to go to a dinner party but you knew that a friend would be there that valued your being there, and who had always been there for you?


Well if I had a friend who was always there for me that wanted me at a dinner party that I didn't really want to go to I would consider it a priviledge to be there for them. At that point it wouldn't be so much about going to a dinner party that I didn't want to go to but about being there for a friend who apparently would do the same for me. I think that's were I disagree with Katie Byron about love always being selfish. Sometimes it's not thinking about what makes me happy but what can I do for my friend, spouse, child etc to make them happy. And usually when you do something to make them happy, it makes you happy. So maybe it is selfish. :rolleyes:

Lauri

[Amie]

Lauri,

I was talking to someone else about this too. Originally it was a similar question posed to Dena's yahoo group. One person said along the lines of a friend making the choice that they make NOT expecting a thing in return and for us to make a choice out of obligation is not being true to the friend.

I'm struck by both of your answers, really. I think that you're both right. These types of things never have simple answers, do they?!

Amie

[Truthseeker]

Dear Sis Amie, I look at this from another perspective: I would never WANT anyone to do one single thing for me out of obligation! How bad I would feel knowing that my friend, or any loved one, were doing things they didn't want to do--simply for me. Knowing the truth is, imo, the most important thing of all--always.

I imagine finding out later, that my friend did things for me, simply to make me happy--but you see, I can't be happy about that! If I believe that my friend wanted to go too--I would be believing a lie.

Good friends, I think, can tell each other the truth, in fact, I think its righteous for us to always be truthful with one another--even to those we hardly know. The truth is the kindest way of all--in everything.

There is SO much phoney-baloney "kindness" out there, that just nauseates me, Sis. Its sickeningly over- sweet, you know? Its over-praising people to the heights, using lofty words and clever sayings, like, "Oh, your words are so inspired!" and stuff like that--repeated so often that the praise becomes cheap. Its supposed to present an ideal of "love" and "goodness", but its not "love", and its not "goodness" because its NOT REAL. Its a show. This is the kind of "transformation" I'm seeing in society--a bunch of fakers; actors and actresses on stage. I have no desire for that kind of "love" or "goodness." I have no desire for lies in any form they take, Sis.

A true friend is true. Not only to him/herself, but to others. You ask me to go to this thing, I'm truthful with you--I really don't want to go. You now know the truth. Its best for you, as well as for myself. I don't think you'd want me to go, pretending I'm happy about it, when I'm not. I certainly wouldn't want you to go, pretending you're happy about it. :)

Or, after I tell you the truth, you may say, "But I WANT you to go! Will you please? I don't want to go alone." Then I may say, "Ok, Sis. I'll go since it means so much to you." Truth hasn't taken a holiday, and I may even end up having a great time, and be glad I went. And when I tell you that, you know its the truth.

How else can our "word" have any meaning? How can it be trusted?

Bless ya--rhonda

[Amie]

Rhonda,

Would you say then that when we are true to ourselves, that that enables us to be true to others?

Amie

[Amie]

Well if I had a friend who was always there for me that wanted me at a dinner party that I didn't really want to go to I would consider it a priviledge to be there for them.

Considering yours and Rhondas posts, would you say that 'pretending' to want to be there would be not being true? And, if you shared that you didn't want to be there but decided to go anyway, that to me, sounds like sacrifice. Imo, this is where Lauri's post hits me. I guess when it comes to sacrifice, we might weigh the worths so to speak?

Amie

[Truthseeker]

Rhonda,

Would you say then that when we are true to ourselves, that that enables us to be true to others?

Amie

Yes, I'd say that, Amie. The Golden Rule. :) --rhonda

[Lauri]

I really don't think I would consider going to a dinner because a friend really wanted me to go a sacrafice. Like I said I would consider it a priviledge to be able to do something for my friend. Now if my friend asked me for a kidney, I might consider that a sacrafice. :)

Lauri

[Truthseeker]

If one goes and pretends to want to, when he/she doesn't want to--that's a sacrifice--as in, "I'm pretending I want to go and I'll act as if I do, when I really don't--I'll make my friend believe I want to--for her sake".

If one says the truth, (that he/she doesn't want to go) and goes anyway--that too is a sacrifice. And the one for whom's sake it is, will know it is.

Either way, its a sacrifice--but in the latter, the truth isn't sacrificed. Both know.

Love doesn't enable--that's a truth that I've learned, from dear Sis Amie. :)

When we fake anything, we're enabling many things, don't you think? We're deceiving--even if its with good intentions. We cause someone to believe things about ourselves that aren't true. We cause them to trust that it is true--when it isn't.

And a trap is set (that you've set). A trap is set, because now you must live up to these "things" you've caused another to believe. You're living a lie that you have to continually now live up to--because the relationship is now built on it. One time doing it won't be the end of it. It must continue on--because when you've done this, its latched onto, which in reality is WHY you've done it. So you must continue it now. Its not simply a "dinner party." It goes much, much deeper than that.


-rhonda

[Truthseeker]

And Dear Sis Lauri,

I want to add to what I just posted, that what I said wasn't directed to you.

Because what I think you're saying is that you WANT to go for your friend.

You consider it a priveledge to go; and that's a beautiful thing.

This isn't at all what I'm addressing--I'm talking about a situation where one doesn't WANT to go. And pretends to want to.

I know this isn't where you were coming from, dear Sis. Because there would be no need for pretense on your part. I was speaking toward a whole 'nother thing, and I want to clarify that--what I said just happened to follow your posting. Bless ya--rhonda

[Amie]

The person who brought up the question said to the effect that when she was confronted with choice, she often heard two voices in her head. She asked how to know which voice to listen to. Her mom told her basically to listen to the one without guilt. I thought that answer very wise. I just made up a scenerio that probably doesn't do the original question justice.

Rhonda - There are lots of times that I tell my husband that I don't want to go to a movie, or try a new restaurant, but that I am willing to open myself a little for his sake. As of yet, 100% of the time I end up enjoying myself. When his choice of movie or food wins me like that, he seems to enjoy it too, go figure, lol! He doesn't typically ask me to join him for anything when the cost is too high - like when I'm sick or something.

Every time I've spoken at a Presence conference, I felt really sad about leaving my family. I just adore them, you know how it is probably. When I get there, I get to "schmooze" with Lauri, not worry about what to make for dinner, and the kids and my hubby enjoy their bonding time in a way that they wouldn't have otherwise. It doesn't really go with the question posed perfectly, because I both want to go and don't want to go at the same time... or maybe it does. haha!

Amie