Eve

[backtothefuture]

Hi,
I wasn't sure if this should go in the girl chat area or here. So feel free to move it if need be.

I was wondering if anyone has some different thoughts on Eve.
In the first chapter of Genesis you read, God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him, male and female he created them.
So from the get-go there was male/female. Would this have been one person who looked like the combination of two sexes or two different humans male/female but made simultaneously? At the exact same time maybe?

But, as you get into chapter 2, we read, So the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep and while he was sleeping, he took one of the mans ribs and closed up the place with flesh. Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.
So I am really confused what is happening? He created them male/female from the first chapter, and yet its in chapter 2 that we get different explanation.
Help? Unless I was thinking the original male/female had all the DNA required so God kind of did something like a clone. I know now you are thinking I really lost it today:biggrinbounce:

Then is chapter 3 when the serpent temps the woman, he does tell her first "you will NOT surely die" For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God. knowing good and evil. Would Eve even had known what death was at this point?

What I was wondering is when it says, the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eyes and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took and ate it. Well, how did she even know what Wisdom was before eating the fruit? I always assumed she and the man, didn't have a clue about much of anything before their eyes were opened. Kind of like living in la la land. And I guess she didn't want to be wise all be herself cause she gave some to her husband who was standing with her. So obviously he had no wisdom yet, or he would have told her not to eat it.
And yet, if Eve hadn't, there would be no redemption story. Seems to me, that throughout history, Eve has taken a bad rap and many have suffered harm in their individual beliefs because so many things that woman do are blamed on EVE. And yet, She started the ball rolling and we are face to face now with God, all because of a woman. How neat is that. In my humble opinion.

Any thoughts,
Nancy

[Lou]

Hi Nancy, the way I see this it is written as a type/shadow that goes all the way through Scripture. Adam = Old Covenant (Israel) and Eve = New Covenant (Church) In 1 Timothy Paul uses the Adam and Eve type much as he did the Hagar and Sarai type in Galatians.

[Amie]

My son is home sick today, so I didn't have to work and have time to write finally :)


In the first chapter of Genesis you read, God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him, male and female he created them.

So from the get-go there was male/female. Would this have been one person who looked like the combination of two sexes or two different humans male/female but made simultaneously? At the exact same time maybe?

That verse can also be understood "God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God created he him [mankind]; male and female created he them."

This is the same set-up as we have today. Mankind, or humanity, consists of both males (unfortunately --- hahaha, just messin' with the fellas!) and females.

In chapter two, a portion of humanity is formed to serve as "wife" to the other portion, who then becomes "husband". They then take on roles rather than sexes.

Genesis 2:7 can be accurately translated (not that what some have are mistranslations - this just offers added insight) "And Jehovah God formed this same man out of the dust.."

From out of mankind, came "Eve". "Wife" is a covenantal function. Consider the "Bride of Christ". She consisted of both men and women.


Would Eve even had known what death was at this point?

Your question is actually a good point. As a human being, she will have seen other people die in her life time. Perhaps that limited understanding of death was a large part of the downfall. The serpent and God said "dying you will die". Perhaps a process had begun that she couldn't comprehend and that was the process of learning death (or "evil"). What do you think?


Well, how did she even know what Wisdom was before eating the fruit?

Another good question and point! It was through the law that humanity came to know both sin, and righteousness apart from it. How then could she have had a clue what she was doing? Maybe it had something to do with the way she viewed God, equating His knowledge with wisdom?

I agree Nancy that women biblically have important roles in redemption. Even the church was called "woman" and "bride".

Our biological make-up are great types to the way God went about creating humanity (and I think it was a process that finished when Jesus finished it). Men planted seeds and tended gardens. Women conceived and brought forth life. It's pretty cool I think.

Overall, I agree with what Lou shared :).

Amie

[backtothefuture]

Just a quick thought. Though Eve enjoyed the garden and its spender, did she know God yet, or had she even met him face to face until after she ate the fruit?
She Knew death after the "fall" because of being out of the garden of lets say grace. She had children then and as humanity progressed she learned of death and probably grief and all that great stuff we have gotten to experience in our lives.
My point is I guess, there would be no plan or need for redemption if she hadn't done what she did. We wouldn't be here maybe?
So i guess I think she still took a bum rap. I guess depending if you believe God is in control and knew all along what would happen, Eve shouldn't have had the bad junk blamed on her.
Its kind of like, I can look back now on my own pain and suffering. Did God allow it? OK it? know about it before hand???? Doesn't matter any more. It got me to where I am now, the garden of grace. So maybe, Eve really did the world a favor.
She represented the new covenant to come?????
Just some random thoughts.
Nancy

[Paige]

Nancy,

I'm of the opinion that Eve somehow got a bad rap because of what she gets blamed for (Adam's demise). The way I read the story, when Eve says "we can't even touch it (the tree)"; I think she is repeating some misinformation that was given to her by Adam. The way it comes out, it almost sounds like God is being a bit unreasonable. There was doubt planted in her mind (about the goodness of God) by someone who may have been carrying around a few doubts of his own. She actually strikes me more as the patsy in the story. She took what He may well have wanted to take all along. Yet, she was deceived in the whole exchange. This is part of the reason why I feel that God holds the first Adam responsible for the fall. He wasn't fooled as to what was going on inside Adam.

Does this make any sense?

Also, Amie wrote:

That verse can also be understood "God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God created he him [mankind]; male and female created he them."

This is the same set-up as we have today. Mankind, or humanity, consists of both males (unfortunately --- hahaha, just messin' with the fellas!) and females.


I read somewhere that both male and female are required to get an accurate picture of God. So often, God is referred to as only male, yet His image was reflected in male and female. I don't know if this adds any to the discussion at hand, but I thought it was kind of interesting...

Paige

[Barry]

Nancy,

I'm of the opinion that Eve somehow got a bad rap because of what she gets blamed for (Adam's demise). The way I read the story, when Eve says "we can't even touch it (the tree)"; I think she is repeating some misinformation that was given to her by Adam. The way it comes out, it almost sounds like God is being a bit unreasonable. There was doubt planted in her mind (about the goodness of God) by someone who may have been carrying around a few doubts of his own. She actually strikes me more as the patsy in the story. She took what He may well have wanted to take all along. Yet, she was deceived in the whole exchange. This is part of the reason why I feel that God holds the first Adam responsible for the fall. He wasn't fooled as to what was going on inside Adam.

Does this make any sense?

Also, Amie wrote:


I read somewhere that both male and female are required to get an accurate picture of God. So often, God is referred to as only male, yet His image was reflected in male and female. I don't know if this adds any to the discussion at hand, but I thought it was kind of interesting...

Paige

This is exceedingly insightful on several levels.
Thank you Page.
Barry

[Amie]

Is it true that Eve was blamed? She was said to have been "beguiled" (tricked).

Did Adam's work and sweat mean death for the offense? He had to be reborn to reenter the garden, Eve having pained in that labor.

It's not that I disagree that Eve has been given a bad rap by many religions. I'm interested in exploring this further if you don't mind my pressing, lol.

Amie

[Paige]

Amie,

I think it depends on who you are asking. I've talked to people who see it the way I do, and then again, I've talked to those who totally blame the woman. Those who blame her are usually the very ones who use that as justification for why "men" must run this world, and women should stay out of it.

Paige

[Amie]

Paige,

I guess the better question then would be "Is it true that Eve was blamed by God?"

Amie

[Paige]

The way I read it, she isn't blamed by God. How are you seeing it?

I do think it is interesting how we tend to read the scriptures according to our own paradigms. I can look at that story and see it one way, yet I know that there are others who see it quite differently. :)

Paige

[Amie]

Paige,

Well, lol.. In Genesis 3 it could sound like God is dealing out punishments. The statements are begun "because you have done this..", however when He tells Eve that she would have multiplied sorrows and conception, it doesn't begin that way. If this were true it would look good for the gals so to speak.

I feel though, that God is simply explaining to them the consequences for their actions. Not that He is dealing them (and holding them accountable), but that is how it is. That would mean that no one would be to blame.

Amie