Reception

[Robert]

I liked the sharing on the backgrounds thread so much I decided to get more stories out of you guys. hahaha I would really like to hear stories of the reception you have gotten when sharing your views on CG and UR with people who hold fundamentalist views or ones that are more conservatively traditional??? Have you been rejected,called heretics,been rebuked and thus??? i ask this to see and understand why such reactions occur so strongly from those who respond that way. Have you ever gone on other forums and tried to initiate discussions on it??? Just very curious.

Robert

[adhitthana]

Sharing preterism one to one face to face is always a good experience. People are generally open if I share in the right spirit.
Sharing on internet forums can be quite different. People say and do things they would not do face to face. ;)

[Jotham]

Hi Robert, i'll bite : )

in one word:

EXCOMMUNICATED

The longer short version is:

Called a loose cannon
Get that heretical teaching out of 'my' church
You are lost

The long version?
HaHa, the post would be a dooooozy. Suffice to say i licked my wounds for years, but knowing what i knew, i couldn't continue playing the Holywood Christianity Game. So i struck out on my own. I currently have two friends who i can genuinely hang with and discuss the deeper things in life. My wife is one of them. A brother in the Lord another.

good thing God gave me the personality to be a happy hermit ; )

[Robert]

OK, bringing this back to hopefully get a few more responses. From what Thom shared i can see it could be a very rough experience that happened. For me, seein gas how i am very new to CG paradigm, I experienced a bit of rejection on sites where emergent views were held as i questioned and spoke from what would be considred a more traditional evangelical mindset. I do really appreciate that the admins and many of the members here openly share that you are not all cookie-cutter followers in lockstep to one solitary view of CG. I find peoples history and stories fascinating so hopefully this will stimulate a few more to share :0

Robert

[David Timm]

I liked the sharing on the backgrounds thread so much I decided to get more stories out of you guys. hahaha I would really like to hear stories of the reception you have gotten when sharing your views on CG and UR with people who hold fundamentalist views or ones that are more conservatively traditional??? Have you been rejected,called heretics,been rebuked and thus??? i ask this to see and understand why such reactions occur so strongly from those who respond that way. Have you ever gone on other forums and tried to initiate discussions on it??? Just very curious.

Hi Robert, my theological and eschatological journey went in the order of dispensationalist, partial preterist, preterist, and then pantelist. No one has ever called me a heretic in person. This may be because I now seldom attend a church. I used to frequently have theological conversations with Christian friends when I was a dispensationalist, and while I am still friends with many of them, theology is rarely if ever brought up anymore among us. I'm sure that a small part of it has to do with communication issues in regards to theology. Many theological terms mean something completely different to me than what they mean to someone from a more traditional mindset. I used to debate my views on preterist websites, but I personally found debating theology to be frequently draining, unedifying, and a waste of time. When debating everyones guards are way up. One thing I love about my theology is that I don't need anyone else to accept it. Because of this I can focus on building up rather than tearing down.

I recently wrote a lengthy article about the transition period and gave a copy of it to a pastor who attended Dallas Theological Seminary. A few weeks prior to that we briefly talked about theology and I shared some of my pantelist views. He has been a partial preterist for a couple years, so I think that may help him somewhat in regards to seeing where I'm coming from. He is married to my wife's cousin, so I've known him for awhile and we get along quite well. My wife and I try to visit them a few times a year. I gave him the article about two weeks ago, and I'm not sure if he has had a chance to look at it yet.

Next Thanksgiving may be very awkward, lol!

[Paige]

Next Thanksgiving may be very awkward, lol!

Lets hope not. Being in the doghouse with family over theological beliefs is no fun at all! Been there, done that, got my face on the t-shirt...

Paige

[Me Again]

Hi Robert, my theological and eschatological journey went in the order of dispensationalist, partial preterist, preterist, and then pantelist.

I'm quoting David's because there's a lot of similarity there. My theological journey went much like his except before embracing partial preterism, I had fully rejected dispensationalism. I was in a "don't know what I am but I know I'm not that" mode.



No one has ever called me a heretic in person.

I have actually avoided conversations of this sort with people who I know are not open to pantelism, or even preterism. When I do find an opening, I pretty much approach cautiously, preferring to use a more partial preterist approach...if that makes sense. Even in the realm of "who's in and who's fryin'" I take a more cautious approach as well, merely talking about God's love for everyone. If there's openness, I proceed.


....I used to frequently have theological conversations with Christian friends when I was a dispensationalist, and while I am still friends with many of them, theology is rarely if ever brought up anymore among us. I'm sure that a small part of it has to do with communication issues in regards to theology. Many theological terms mean something completely different to me than what they mean to someone from a more traditional mindset.

It's amazing how similar we are David...:)

Anyway, I find the conversations mostly fruitless with fundamentalist leaning folk. They do not want their mind changed - at least not yet. There usually has to be some kind of crisis of faith involved...or so it seems. The loss of an "unsaved loved one" is one such opportunity. A grieving fundamentalist is sometimes open to sharing about Christ's work for all. It gives them hope that their loved one "might just stand a chance" - a snowball's chance, but a chance nonetheless.


I used to debate my views on preterist websites, but I personally found debating theology to be frequently draining, unedifying, and a waste of time. When debating everyones guards are way up. One thing I love about my theology is that I don't need anyone else to accept it. Because of this I can focus on building up rather than tearing down.

I used to debate on THIS site. LOL. And I too found it unedifying.

Interestingly, I've never been able to understand human nature in that we argue about things that don't matter. E.g., Rivers of Eden, over at PP, argues that the bible was all about and ONLY about God saving the Jews. Beyond AD70, in his view, we all just die and cease to exist. In fact, all those prior to AD70 just died and ceased to exist. Nothing mattered. It was all a futile nihilistic story fabricated by a god who doesn't give a shit.

The question kept coming up. "Why are you arguing this stuff?" If there's no heaven, no post-mortem existence; what does it matter?" His response? He wanted to help people stop living delusional lives and get on with it. How ridiculously pompous! An Evangelical Nihilist. LOL. What's the point?

I was also in a debate with a Calvinist and said to him, "Why are you so insistent that I believe what you do? If I am chosen, God will eventually straighten me out enough to get to heaven. If not, I won't get to heaven anyway...so what's the point?" He responded by saying that I didn't understand Calvinism. ROTFLMAO. I explained to him that I passed muster and was ordained an elder in one of the most CONSERVATIVE PRESBYTERIAN denominations in America. I was nominated for a seat on the board of the National Reform Association. I've taught the Westminter Shorter Catechism AND the Heidelberg Catechism to all my children (at that time); and he has the audacity to say I don't understand Calvinism!!!!

Unfortunately I didn't learn my lesson that time...Recently though, I realized how futile it is to argue and debate. I try to share, explain, teach. And I get a pretty good reception...most times. At work (where there are no fundamentalists), I get a very good reception. A co-supervisor of mine, who used to be my supervisor (still is clinically), has been a great ally in formulating a spiritual plan for praying for our agency and our co-workers. She is an Evangelical Lutheran (very "liberal"). Interspersed in her Christian theology is a lot of Eastern thought. I find her theology to be very close to mine.

So to make a short story long LOL, I don't argue, or even discuss theology that much any more...not apart from the internet. I go to church, mostly because my wife still believes it is important. We have many disagreements, but I try not to be disagreeable (she might say otherwise). Due to her parents being Universalists, and her getting pregnant out-of-wedlock, she is pretty much a "live by the rules" kind of person. I don't say that judgmentally, just as an observation. She bucks at the whole idea that God doesn't require anything of us...amazing what religion does to us, eh?

My older kids have accepted the pantelist view with open arms. It's a trust thing - they trust "daddy." If I believe it, they're open to it. As I have explained it to them, it has made sense to them, and they've embraced it. This has led to them not really sensing the need to go to church which bothers my wife immensely (Nate, who was Dana's son out-of-wedlock, whom I adopted, still goes to church with us and his family).

I find my wife's rejection of it frustrating (she doesn't reject verbally, she just doesn't believe it). She could be so free...!!!!!!

Oh well, I'm rambling now. Sorry.

Peace

[Barry]

Warning! In a bit of a mood until I get my caffeine this morning!

I'm waiting for highly advanced aliens to come to earth and announce their own findings, and say, "God is love and the way is love".
Then some folk can claim that they are really Satan's angels being cast out of heaven.

Might have something more constructive later :)

Barry

PS, very interesting points, perspectives and experiences.

[Jotham]

... I'm waiting for highly advanced aliens to come to earth and announce their own findings, and say, "God is love and the way is love"...L O L. Barry, have you been watching those Stargate Reruns before bedtime again?

(on a more serrious note, the "God is Love and the way is love" thingy seems to be the foundation of nearly every religion outside of the one that the ConstatineCronies have pushed-as-proper for the past 1700 years ; )

[Lauri]

Ed,
Aren't you attending a UCC church? I thought you had said onetime that you were. I was just wondering because I am attending one here and they are VERY liberal, open and affirming!! Just curious.

Lauri

[Amie]

For me,

I don't see it as sharing a theology really. I share my thoughts and feelings inclusively as I think it fits into whatever relationship. Sometimes folks just don't like me and that's ok.

Amie

[Me Again]

Ed,
Aren't you attending a UCC church? I thought you had said onetime that you were. I was just wondering because I am attending one here and they are VERY liberal, open and affirming!! Just curious.

Lauri

The church we attend used to be a UCC congregation. Last year we voted to leave the denomination. I personally didn't like the political stuff coming from "Synod" (a hangover from their Reformed roots). My position is libertarian, with only a dash of progressivism, and a couple tablespoons of conservativism. Church has no place promoting an ideology, liberal or conservative. Therefore I voted, with the majority, to leave the UCC.

Unfortunately, this has opened up the floodgate for a move toward the right - a Statement of Faith that is anathema to me. The old UCC statement of faith was a personal fave of mine, and of course, I have no problem with the ONA position, although it seemed to be forced and phony in most congregations ("hey, look at us, we like gay people even though they are really abnormal....").

We have a couple Quaker congregations in the area, but they are not always consistently Quaker, leaning more toward an evangelical (like George Fox University) view. If the Quaker congregations in our area are "liberal" enough theologically, I might transition my family (who love our church) towards one of them...

I am a libertarian theologically and politically - therefore a theologically liberal church is to my liking as long as they are not politically oriented. I don't want to attend a church that has a pep rally for Obama any more than I want to go to one that has a pep rally for Bush/McCain/Palin...

Pep rallies for Jesus are my style. :biglaugha:

[Lauri]

Well the UCC church I attend is definatley open and affirming. The pastor is a Lesbian and her partner is the music director. There are several members of the congregation that are gay. They are a bit political though. I don't feel the need or want to join the church but I enjoy attending. They are open minded and I feel I can share my views without being condemed so it works for me. I would love to try a Quaker church. I have read a lot of books by Phillip Gulley, a quaker minister. He wrote a series of fictional books Called the Harmony series that I am rereading right now and are just hysterical. He also wrote a great book on CG called "If Grace is true: Why God will Save Every Person."

Lauri

P.S. Can't wait to finally meet you in person next week

[Me Again]

Lauri

P.S. Can't wait to finally meet you in person next week

I agree. It's almost hard to believe that it's finally going to happen - getting to meet you and Andy, Amie and Brian, and Dena and what's-his-name. :biglaugha: I can't remember Dena ever telling me his name - I just know she loves him vvvvvveeeeeeerrrrrrryyyyyy much.

[Lauri]

His name is Mark and he is a very cool guy!!

Lauri

[Robert]

All Right!!! Thank you everyone for sharing. Really cool to hear everyones journey. I agree arguing theology seldom changes minds. I would say discussing is a fine line as opposed to arguing, and i think the attitude and tone taken makes a world of difference. I am not sure just how to categorize where I have been at. I was never a dispensationalist. I think i was a arminian universalist in that I leaned toward God reconciling all through Christ. This forum is so good in letting us share our journeys and to know we can share where we have been, where we are and where we are going :)

Robert

[David Timm]

Lets hope not. Being in the doghouse with family over theological beliefs is no fun at all! Been there, done that, got my face on the t-shirt...

If you don't want to talk about this subject Paige I understand, but has this situation improved?

[Paige]

Not really...We're kind of at a standstill relationship wise, with the topic now being one that we just avoid.

Paige

[Barry]

L O L. Barry, have you been watching those Stargate Reruns before bedtime again?

(on a more serrious note, the "God is Love and the way is love" thingy seems to be the foundation of nearly every religion outside of the one that the ConstatineCronies have pushed-as-proper for the past 1700 years ; )

Thom, Thom, Thom,
let's consider the real possibilities here!
Talk Grace is such a revolutionary, so very way ahead its time, community of fellowship and thinkers filled with so much love, that it is near probable that we have indeed gained some extraterrestrial attention.

If we say, "it's time to make your presence known" we must consider the possibility of some influence in this matter!

Barry

:uhh:

[Jotham]

Oh trust me when i say i daily ponder the posibilities that we have perked the interest of those "Watching" from beyond !

also those other possibles from alternate dimensions (how many are some theories up to now? 25??)

[Barry]

Oh trust me when i say i daily ponder the posibilities that we have perked the interest of those "Watching" from beyond !

also those other possibles from alternate dimensions (how many are some theories up to now? 25??)

I have long had a gut feeling that Talk Grace could take over the world.
Perhaps that will only be the beginning.
Barry

:biggrinbounce:

[Amie]

"Pinky and The Barry"


http://cenriqueortiz.com/images/pinky_brain.jpg