Comparing old v. new age language

[David Timm]

I put together this list of old vs new language. You may find it interesting.

The old v. the new:

present age v. age to come

present time v. age to come

old/first covenant v. new covenant

old self v. new self

first heaven and earth v. new heaven and earth

present heavens and earth v. new heavens and earth

Law v. Grace

Adam v. Last Adam

Eve v. church

Eve v. bride of Christ/wife of the Lamb

bad deeds v. good deeds

fruit of the flesh v. fruit of the Spirit

bondwoman v. free woman

present Jerusalem v. new (heavenly) Jerusalem (city whose builder is God)

from below v. from above

this creation v. not of this creation

creation subjected to futility by God v. creation set free from corruption by God

mortal v. immortal

tares v. wheat/first fruits

natural (man/body) v. spiritual (man/body)

perishable v. imperishable

the partial v. the perfect (1 Cor 13:10)

condemned v. forgiven

Mount Sinai v. Mount Zion

Ishmael v. Isaac

Esau v. Jacob

Hagar v. Sarah

naked v. clothed/further clothed

shame v. glory

shame v. stand (regarding judgment)

eternal judgment v. eternal life ((eternal) salvation/(eternal) inheritance)

eternal punishment v. eternal life

eternal destruction v. eternal life

eternal fire v. eternal life

death/die v. life/live

resurrection of judgment v. resurrection of life

resurrection of the wicked v. resurrection of the righteous

resurrection of the unjust v. resurrection of the just

children of the devil (Satan) v. children of God

devil as father v. Abraham as father

vessels of wrath v. vessels of mercy

flesh v. Spirit

darkness v. light

night v. day

animal sacrifices v. Christ’s sacrifice

this tent v. heavenly dwelling

made with hands v. not made with hands

temple made with hands v. temple of the living God/the Holy of Holies in
heaven

earthly v. heavenly

earthly tent v. building from God

this tent/tabernacle v. true tent/tabernacle

rich/wealthy in the world v. poor in the world

children of wrath v. children of promise

kingdom taken from v. kingdom given to those producing the fruit of it

those outside the city/kingdom v. those inside the New Jerusalem

body of death v. body of Christ

outer man v. inner man

humiliation v. confidence

strong/wise/mighty of the world v. weak/foolish of the world

country v. better (heavenly) country

ministry of condemnation v. ministry of righteousness

ministry of condemnation v. ministry of the Spirit

glory v. much more glory

slavery/bondage v. freedom

written on tablets of stone v. written on tablets of human hearts

written with ink v. written with the Spirit of God

letter v. Spirit

[Amie]

David,

I appreciate the work that it took to put that together. For me (maybe not for you other other people), the "v" in the middle creates a dualist perception. Like "flesh" is in contrast to "spirit". I think that it could be and was used that way during the transtition, don't get me wrong. I think too that what may have been revealed was that one integrated the next. We are still "flesh" and still think that way, yet now in addition to that there is "mind of spirit".

It is like our having been children and now we are adults. Childish things can be explained in contrast to grown up thing, but we do not cast off our childhood nor does it stand in opposition to adulthood. It actually facilitates growth into adulthood.

I hope that made sense! lol!

Amie

[Paige]

Yes, and something else to consider is that as we transition into new levels of knowledge (for lack of a better word), we do not cast off what was learned at the prior levels, we integrate them. 2+2 still equals four, yet higher math can actually transcend that too (while not negating it).

[Me Again]

Yes, and something else to consider is that as we transition into new levels of knowledge (for lack of a better word), we do not cast off what was learned at the prior levels, we integrate them. 2+2 still equals four, yet higher math can actually transcend that too (while not negating it).

Tim King's lecture hit on that very thing - the levels of consciousness. He pointed out that there were Dignities and Disasters. The dignities we take with us to the next level, the disasters we leave behind.

[David Timm]

I appreciate the work that it took to put that together. For me (maybe not for you other other people), the "v" in the middle creates a dualist perception. Like "flesh" is in contrast to "spirit". I think that it could be and was used that way during the transtition, don't get me wrong. I think too that what may have been revealed was that one integrated the next. We are still "flesh" and still think that way, yet now in addition to that there is "mind of spirit".

Amie, I appreciate your gracious response. When I began putting this together, I think I had the persecution of Galatians 4:29 or the opposition of Galatians 5:17 between the flesh and Spirit in mind. I may have over used it by including it with all the comparisons. Regarding flesh and mind of spirit, I see both of these as entirely being about age or covenantal. So I personally lean away from the view that anyone is still flesh in the biblical sense.


It is like our having been children and now we are adults. Childish things can be explained in contrast to grown up thing, but we do not cast off our childhood nor does it stand in opposition to adulthood. It actually facilitates growth into adulthood.

I hope that made sense! lol!

This does make sense and a few of the speakers in Baytown mentioned it as well. But I may be unique in regards to this forum in that I view the old as completely seperate from the new. It is not about our understanding at all but rather God's understanding based on what He made. I believe humanity comes into this understanding over time, but I don't see that as fulfillment. IMO the old and the new are two completely seperate entities. The old IMO prepared one for and pointed to the new, but it didn't transition one into the new. The new swallowed the old instead. In this way I instead believe that the childhood was cast off, and would never be remembered.

1 Cor 13:11 When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things.

Hebrews 10:9 then He said, "BEHOLD, I HAVE COME TO DO YOUR WILL." He takes away the first in order to establish the second.

Isaiah 43:16 Thus says the LORD, Who makes a way through the sea And a path through the mighty waters, 17 Who brings forth the chariot and the horse, The army and the mighty man (They will lie down together and not rise again; They have been quenched and extinguished like a wick): 18 "Do not call to mind the former things, Or ponder things of the past. 19 "Behold, I will do something new, Now it will spring forth; Will you not be aware of it? I will even make a roadway in the wilderness, Rivers in the desert.

Isaiah 65:17 "For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; And the former things will not be remembered or come to mind.

IMO, this is where the road splits for me when compared to many others here, and it is revealed especially when the law is discussed. Other than that, I think the big picture is similar for most of us here. I hope this makes sense.

[Amie]

David,

If we were all alike, we wouldn't learn a thing. I value your feedback and appreciate the things to think about that you offer up. You post reminds me of Barry's reminders that nothing is ongoing. I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on "flesh" within the biblical context if you don't mind sharin' 'em.

Amie

[Paige]

David,

Its interesting to me that in describing the New Heavens and New Earth (Is. 65:17) the Prophet goes on in ch.66 using language like this:

"For as the new heavens and new earth Which I will make shall remain before Me, says the Lord, So shall your descendants and your name remain. And it shall come to pass That from one New Moon to another, And from one Sabbath to another, All flesh shall come to worship before Me, says the Lord." (66:22-23)

New Moons and Sabbath are part and parcel of "former things" (the way I'm seeing it), so it is one of the reasons that I currently see the New as the completion of the Old. Of course, the only language they had to describe what it would be like was language based in their current reality and experience, so that could account for some of it.

Paige

[David Timm]

Paige,

This is one example of where I see the former existence of the former things pointing to the things that were to come. Also the law being a shadow of the things to come. The animal sacrifices pointing to the spiritual sacrifices of the elect would be another example (1 Pt 2:5).
Completely different orders that were not connected, but one pointing to the other. One also removing the other by making all things that were old as new.

Hebrews 8:13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

[Amie]

David and Paige,

Are y'all agreeing or disagreeing? It seems to me that the new promise was that the old promise would be fulfilled. The new promise therefore makes the old promise obsolete because it is a promise fulfilled.

David,

Granted there is no law which validates the "mind of flesh" today. On one hand, I see the point that Jesus was the first of a spiritual humanity and the last of Adam. That suggests an end to "mind of flesh". However on the other hand, I can see that people today use that same kind of thinking -- although there is no law to validate it today. That's why anyhow, I'm interested in your understanding of "flesh".

Amie

[Paige]

Are y'all agreeing or disagreeing?

Heck, I don't know :1755::homer2::conf44:

LOL!

[David Timm]

Heck, I don't know

LOL!

:biglaugha:


New Moons and Sabbath are part and parcel of "former things" (the way I'm seeing it), so it is one of the reasons that I currently see the New as the completion of the Old. Of course, the only language they had to describe what it would be like was language based in their current reality and experience, so that could account for some of it.

I think we agree, lol. Regarding the oldish language there, I think it was used accurately and for the purpose of showing the connections between the shadows and the fulfillment.

[Paige]

I think we agree, lol.

I am so relieved, LOL! Thank you for clearing that up, I'm a little dense right now :homer2: