Gates of Hell

[Robert]

We covered the passage where Jesus calls Peter the rock and says, *upon this rock i will build my church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it* Question- is the word for hell here gehenna?? Did the valley of Hinnom have gates??? Gates are structures that operate in a defensive posture to my thinking, so how could gates offensively prevail against anything?? Or is Jesus saying they will not be able to keep His Kingdom out??? But why would His kingdom be going into hell/gehenna??? Just some questions that popped into my head.

Robert

[David Timm]

We covered the passage where Jesus calls Peter the rock and says, *upon this rock i will build my church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it*

Hey Robert, I think Jesus was saying that He is the rock, not Peter.

Romans 9:33 just as it is written, "BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE, AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."

1 Cor 10:4 and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.

Christ is the firstfruit, the firstborn from the dead. The church is the body and Christ is the head, so the church was built upon the rock. I think the gates of hell not prevailing against the rock is saying that the NJ would be protected from the wrath of God in 70AD. The NJ was like an ark so those in it were protected from the the fire of hell, that fire could not touch those in it. IOW:

Revelation 2:11 `He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.'

JMO

[ozark]

If you take the view that Jesus was addressing the thinking of the day, the translation would be Hades. The escatology of the day said that in Old Testament times people did not go to heaven when they died. Sin separated humanity from God not only in this life but also in the next. The dead were not in heaven but in Sheol or Hades. The tradition of Jesus day was that Hades had two huge gates. Those gates remained locked awaiting the day the Messiah would come and set the captives free.

At Caesarea Philippi Jesus was saying that day was now upon them. We see this concept in the book of Revelation where Jesus, the risen Lord, says I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death. (REV 1:8) The gates of Hades did not keep out. They kept in.

This understanding persisted in the early church. An early sermon from a fellow named Melito (AD 195) describes this thought in the most profound way. Speaking of Christ, he writes:

But he rose from the dead
And mounted up to the heights of heaven.
When the Lord had clothed himself with humanity,
And had suffered for the sake of the sufferer,
And had been bound for the sake of the imprisoned,
and had been judged for the sake of the condemned,
and buried for the sake of the one who was buried,
he rose up from the dead,
and cried with a loud voice:
Who is he that contends with me?
Let him stand in opposition to me.
I set the condemned man free;
I give the dead man life;
I raised up one who had been entombed.
Who is my opponent?
I, he says, am the Christ.
I am the one who destroyed death,
And triumphed over the enemy,
And trampled Hades underfoot,
And bound the strong one,
And carried off man
To the heights of heaven.
I, he says, am the Christ.

[Robert]

David- yes lol i know Jesus is the Rock my error in wording there. Ozark- ty for the background on OT eschatology there. I think all with a futurist view need to step back as you did and realize what did Jesus convey to His audience back then??/ What would they have understood gehenna to mean???

[ozark]

When you put Jesus statement in its context, there are many shades of meaning.

Jesus’ statement in Matthew sixteen takes place at Caesarea Philippi. That is no accident. If we recall our first century history, Herod the Great was king in Palestine until about 4 BC. When he died, the Romans divided his kingdom between Herod’s three sons. The one that got the Northeast region was Philip. When Philip came to power, he changed the name of the city from Paneas to Caesarea Philippi. He did so to honor two people. It does not take a language specialist to figure out who those two people were. The name Caesarea was to honor Caesar and the second name Philippi, Philip chose to honor himself.

Caesarea Philippi was probably the most pagan place in all of Palestine. Most devout Jews would probably avoid it altogether, but Jesus went there deliberately. In a rocky part of the city on a bluff were two temples. One was built to honor Caesar. That alone would be considered blasphemy to the Jews, but nearby there was another temple built to worship the Greek god Pan. In fact, it was the worldwide center for Pan worship. As part of their devotion the followers of Pan would perform acts too lewd to mention. Right next to Pan’s temple was a great crevice or crack in the ground. It was thought to be the place where the dead spirits would go to and from Hades. It was called “The Gates of Hell.” Well, at least that is what the translators of the King James Version would call it. Its actual name was “The Gates of Hades.”

In proclaiming that the Gates of Hell would not prevail against His church, Jesus was saying His victory would not only encompass the afterlife but this life as well. Neither Caesar nor paganism would prevail against his people. Though Rome and Paganism tried to snuff out the light of the gospel, they were not able to do so.

[Amie]

Doug,

I LOVE when you share history! I appreciate that!


David- yes lol i know Jesus is the Rock my error in wording there. Ozark- ty for the background on OT eschatology there. I think all with a futurist view need to step back as you did and realize what did Jesus convey to His audience back then??

I for one think that it is invaluable to look at context.


What would they have understood gehenna to mean???

It reads "Gates of Hades" and so in that particular part this answer won't apply -- but I had a thought concerning your question. What if Jesus were standing here today and we did live in the end times and he said that those who didn't believe what he was saying would be thrown into the fires of Bagdad. How would you take it?

Amie

[Robert]

Amie- I would take it as very bad news!!! It would connote a literal burned alive said in that context. Context is everything your right on there Amie!!! I think a new thread or a resurrected thread if one exists should be made dealing with context and how to interpret local and cultural to the time period and universal for alltime as far as all that is in the Bible. Obviously *love god and love your neighbor* were not meant just for back then. How do we decide what is what as far as application goes???

Robert

[Amie]

Robert,

Did u see this thread?: http://talk-grace.com/showthread.php?t=1977

Amie