The Rapture

[Truthseeker]

Hello Dear Friends,

Forgive me if this has already been discussed; if so, please refer me to the discussion.

The word "Rapture" doesn't appear in scripture, yet it has become a major teaching in Christianity. If someone were to ask you: What is The Rapture and did it occur in the First Century, how would you answer? Interested in hearing your thoughts. --rhonda

[Paige]

Rhonda,

How I would answer that is:

The rapture is a teaching that asserts the disappearance of all christians from the earth before the 2nd coming of Christ. The word is not scriptural, and the teaching most likely originates from a flawed interpretation (IMO) of 1 Thess. 4:17. The phrase there is "caught up".

I view the elect as being gathered into Christ at the end of the age. They did not disappear, but rather were glorified with Christ at His Parousia. It was then fully revealed to those who chose to remain in OC Israel, that they were the true elect of God. This did occur in 70, but the "rapture" as it has been popularly taught, did not.

Hope this helped,
Paige

[Barry]

Rhonda,

How I would answer that is:

The rapture is a teaching that asserts the disappearance of all christians from the earth before the 2nd coming of Christ. The word is not scriptural, and the teaching most likely originates from a flawed interpretation (IMO) of 1 Thess. 4:17. The phrase there is "caught up".

I view the elect as being gathered into Christ at the end of the age. They did not disappear, but rather were glorified with Christ at His Parousia. It was then fully revealed to those who chose to remain in OC Israel, that they were the true elect of God. This did occur in 70, but the "rapture" as it has been popularly taught, did not.

Hope this helped,
Paige

Really good points Paige.
Imagine that God's creation is or was not "very good" or would never be "very good". Yes indeed, God would then have to "take up and away" those few who believed. Take up and away into the very good that God never really accomplished. (NOT).


Neither "rapture" nor "caught up" are in the bible. "Up" is not in the original language. It is put in by the translators. And they had their ideas as to what they thought this should mean.

Thankyou Page.
Barry

[Tam]

Hmmm, interesting how the rapture I've learned about was suppose to be something mentioned in the gospels and then got all intermingled with Revelations in Bible studies somehow. Revelation used to absolutely FREAK ME OUT:eek: But now, I don't worry about the book so much any more. But ok, back to the rapture...don't really think there's any such thing. I heard about a gal in the 1800's...um...Margaret something...heard she actually started the idea saying it was from a vision?? Does anyone know anything about that? I think Christ's second coming already happened at Penticost. He came back just as he said He would to reside in the hearts of people.

Actually Rhonda, don't have a clue!!:uhh:

But...those are my thoughts at the moment.

Tami

[Amie]

Oftentime the rapture is supported using these verses in Matthew 24:

37 But as the days of Noah, so also will be the coming of the Son of Man.
38 For as they were in the days before the flood: eating, and drinking, marrying, and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah went into the ark.
39 And they did not know until the flood came and took all away. So also will be the coming of the Son of Man.
40 At that time two will be out in the field; the one is taken away, and the one is left;
41 two grinding at the mill; one is taken away, and one is left.

If we place ourselves in the time of Noah, we understand that those "taken away" were washed away in a flood. It could be understood that Noah was taken away, but the verses say specifically "the flood came and took all away". I don't know about you, but I don't think those believers in the church would look forward to such a "taking away".

"Caught up" imo, is very much like what we do when we grip a glass. We don't even have to pick the glass up to have it "caught up" in our grip.

1 Thess 4:17 does specify that they would be caught up specifically "to meet the Lord in the air". The idea that means that it would be "in the sky" is a common one, but not one that I would agree with.

There are two Greek words for "air" used in the NT. One is "ouranos" and Strong's defines it as "the vaulted expanse of the sky", and seems to assign it the position of "above" and "aerial". It's "up there". It is also not the word used in 1 Thess 4:17.

The word in 1 Thess 4:17 is "aer", and means pretty much the air around you (the "lower, denser air" - Strong's). This doesn't without doubt support that they were to meet Jesus in the "sky". For some context, it is used:

Acts 22
23 And they shouting, and tearing the garments, and throwing dust into the air,

1 Cor 9
26 So I run accordingly, as not uncertainly; so I fight, as not beating air;

1 Cor 14
9 So also you, if you do not give a clear word through the language, how will the thing being said be known? For you will be speaking into air.

Ephesians 2
2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the ruler of the authority of the air, the spirit now working in the sons of disobedience,

1 Thess 4
17 Then we who remain alive will be caught up together with them in the clouds to a meeting with the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

Rev 9
2 And he opened the pit of the abyss. And smoke went up out of the pit, like smoke of a great furnace. And the sun was darkened, and the air, by the smoke of the pit.

Rev 16
17 ¶ And the seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and a great voice came from the throne from the temple of Heaven, saying, It has happened!

"Satan" had ruled in this life, which is truly nothing. The saying "you're talking to the air" means that no one is putting weight on your words. Though "satan" had ruled this life, it would not last. God's rule would extend to the "air" as well. Jesus was taking control, and the church would be reigning with him there. They would be "caught up there with him". "There" was "here".

Hoping that made sense. (And this is a new conversation)

Amie

[Tam]

Rhonda, What are you're thots on the rapture? Would love to hear your view. Tami

[LeeDamboiseII]

Kingdom Bible Studies
Part 47 End Times Pg.2

THE ORIGIN OF THE PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE
That's the way the "rapture" is usually presented. But is that how Jesus announced He would return? Will He come back physically in two phases - one, secret and unexpected, "for" His saints, to rapture them away; and a second, publicly "with" His saints? Is this "rapture" really the "hope" of the Church as the preachers are wont to proclaim? Let me give you the history of how this theory got started.
It wasn't until the early or mid 1800's that there was any significant group of believers around the world that looked for a "rapture" of the Church prior to a seven-year tribulation period. It may come as a shock to some who read these lines, but it is a fact nonetheless, that the "rapture" teaching was NOT taught by the early Church, it was NOT taught by the Church of the first centuries, it was NOT taught by the Reformers, IT WAS NOT TAUGHT BY ANYONE (except a couple Roman Catholic theologians) UNTIL ABOUT THE YEAR 1830! At the time of the Reformation the early Protestants widely held and Were convinced that the Pope was the supreme individual embodiment and personification of the spirit of antichrist, and the Roman Church the Harlot System of Rev. 17. This understanding was responsible for bringing millions of believers out of the Roman Catholic religious system. It therefore became expedient for certain Romish theologians to turn the attention of the people away from the Papacy, and this they endeavored to a counter-interpretation to that held by the Protestants. This new scheme of prophetic interpretation became known as FUTURISM. Rather than viewing the drama of the book of Revelation spiritually and historically, they would consign it all to a brief period of time at the end of the age. It was a Jesuit priest named Ribera who, in the days of the Reformation, first taught that all the events in the book of Revelation were to take place literally during the three and a half years reign of the Antichrist away down at the end of the age. Thus Ribera laid the foundation of a system of prophetic interpretation of which the Secret Rapture has now become an integral part.
Later, Emmanuel Lacunza, also a Jesuit priest, built on Ribera's teachings, and spent much of his life writing a book titled "The Coming of Messiah in Glory and Majesty." Lacunza, however, wrote under the assumed name of "Rabbi Ben Ezra," supposedly a learned Jew who had accepted Christ as his Saviour. With Jesuit cunning he thus conspired to get his book a hearing in the Protestant world - they would not even permit it in their homes coming from a Jesuit pen - but as the earnest work of a "converted Jew" they would consume it with avid interest! Within the pages of this elaborate forgery Lacunza taught the novel notion that Jesus returns not once, but twice, and at the "first stage" of His return He "raptures" His Church so they can escape the reign of the "future Antichrist." His book was first published in Spanish in the year 1812 and soon found its way onto the shelves of the library of the Archbishop of Canterbury in London, England.
Now enter the name of Edward Irving. Born in Scotland in 1792, Irving became one of the most eloquent preachers of his time. In 1828 his open-air meetings in Scotland drew crowds of 10,000 people. His Church in London seated one thousand people and was packed week after week with a congregation drawn from the most brilliant and influencial circles of society. There were some among them who by prophetic declaration announced that the Lord was coming soon, and this idea became prominent in their prophetic utterances and teachings. Out of those prophetic declarations some began to study the scriptures in the light of a physical, literal coming of the Lord. Up until that time the coming of the Lord was understood as a coming of the Lord TO His people, and IN His saints, and there was no sense of His fleshly coming. Irving discovered Lacunza's book and was deeply shaken by it, in fact, fell in love with it, translated it into English, and it was published in London in 1827. And at this very time Irving heard what he believed to be a Voice from heaven commanding him to preach the Secret Rapture of the Saints. Then Irving began to hold Bible Conferences throughout Scotland, emphasizing the coming of Jesus to rapture His Church.
About this same time there began the emergence of a new movement which came to be known as the "Plymouth Brethren." The Brethren movement had its beginning in Dublin in 1825 when a small group of earnest men, dissatisfied with the spiritually lethargic condition that prevailed in the Protestant Church in Ireland, met for prayer and fellowship. Soon others joined the fellowship and associated groups sprang up in various places. Though the movement had its beginning at Dublin ' , it was Plymouth, England that became the center of their vast literature outreach, thus the name !'Plymouth Brethren" became attached. Although there was interest from the start in prophetic subjects, the center of interest was on the body of Christ as an organism and the spiritual unity in Christ of all believers - in reaction to the deadness and formalism of the organized church systems and the ecclesiastical Heirarchy. A man by the name of John Nelson Darby was the leading spirit among the Plymouth Brethren from 1830 onward. Darby was from a prosperous Irish family, was educated as a lawyer, took high honors at Dublin University, then turned aside, to his father's chagrin, to become a minister.
Thus Irving and Darby were contemporaries, though associated with different spiritual movements. Another series of meetings were in progress at this time, a group of seeking Christians were meeting in the castle of Lady Powerscourt for the study of Bible prophecy. Many clergymen attended, and quite a few who were Irvingites. The Irvingites came to the meetings obsessed with the ideas of the "Secret Rapture" and the future Antichrist, imbibed from the Jesuit Lacunza's book. J.N. Darby and the other Brethren leaders were invited to these meetings and became participators in them. It was there that he was introduced to the Jesuit teaching of the Secret Rapture and the futurist interpretation of prophecy, as well as the famous book by Rabbi Ben-Ezra, or, actually, Jesuit priest Emmanuel Lacunza! Darby was himself a prolific writer and from that time a constant stream of propaganda came from his pen. His writings on biblical subjects number over 30 volumes of 600 pages each. Darby developed and organized "futurism" into a system of prophetic teaching called "dispensationalism." Darby' s biographers refer to him as "the father of dispensationalism." And the crown jewel in the kingdom of dispensationalism is, of course, the so-called SECRET RAPTURE!
The Secret Rapture teaching was introduced into the United States and Canada in the 1860's and 1870's, though there is some indication that it may have been taught as early as the 1840's. Darby himself visited the United States six times. The "new" teaching was spreading. A Congregationalist preacher by the name of C. I. Scofield came under the influence of Darby and the Plymouth Brethren. Scofield became a strong promoter of the teaching that had been promulgated by Darby, whom he considered "the most profound Bible student of modern times." He incorporated this teaching into his SCOFIELD REFERENCE BIBLE. The Scofield Reference Bible was destined to have a tremendous impact upon the beliefs of many, when, three million copies were published in the first 50 years! Through this Bible Scofield shrewdly carried the teaching of the Secret Rapture into the very heart of Evangelicalism. Some ignorant souls look on the "notes" in this Bible as the Word of God itself! I do not doubt for one instant that many who read these lines have been influenced somewhere in their spiritual lives by the "footnotes" in the Scofield Bible!
There is one final link in the chain of the development and spread of the rapture theory that should be mentioned in passing. I would draw your attention again to the SOURCE, the ORIGIN of the rapture doctrine and the chain of contact by which it has been brought down to us today. It began as a Roman Catholic invention! The Jesuit priest Ribera's writings influenced the Jesuit priest Lacunza, Lacunza influenced Irving, Irving influenced Darby, Darby influenced Scofield, Scofield and Darby influenced D. L. Moody, and Moody influenced the early PENTECOSTAL MOVEMENT. How? you ask. The Assemblies of God is today by far the largest Pentecostal denomination in the world. When the Pentecostal movement began at the turn of the century and the Assemblies of God held their first General Council in 1914 in Hot Springs, Arkansas they were a small movement and didn't have their own Publishing House. They needed Sunday School and study materials for their Churches - so where do you suppose they got it? They bought it from Moody Press and had their own cover stitched on it! So what do you think the Assemblies of God people believed? They believed what Moody Bible Institute taught! This had its impact on Pentecostal theology, because in the early years there were practically NO PREMILLENIALISTS IN THE PENTECOSTAL MOVEMENT! Most of the ministers in those early days came from Presbyterian, Methodist, or other historic denominations - men who, being baptized in the Holy Spirit and leaving their denominations, joined themselves to the Assemblies of God or one of the other emerging Pentecostal denominations. That is how the Pentecostal movement became influenced and saturated with the "Secret Rapture" doctrine - by a direct chain right back to the Roman Catholic Church! And now, my friend - you know the REST OF THE STORY!