Star Of David

[backtothefuture]

Hi,
At the end of a news show I was watching last night about what is going on in Israel right now, the last shot was a flag pole witht the Star of David blowing in the wind. I really felt choked up some. I started wondering if by any chance anyone here knew what the star actually stood for. And did it go all the way back to King David in the Bible? I don't remember reading about the Star of David in the bible.
Then I started thinking, the evangelicals are still waiting for the return of their Messiah, (Jesus) and the Jews in the state of Israel are waiting for the return of their Messiah (since they don't believe it was Jesus), so that got me wondering are some people looking at the return of two Messiahs?
Sorry if this is so confusing:uhh:

Thanks
Nancy

[Amie]

Nancy,

A rabbi taught me that the upside down triangle represents humanity's arms, outstretched toward the heavens in the shape of a "v". The other triangle is God's outstretched and all encompassing arms.

Hitler made the Jews wear identifying stars as well.

Many Christians await the return of Jesus (they either deny the first so-called "return" or look for a second one). As I understand it, in true Catholic doctrine, they only await the bowls of wrath to be poured out upon the literal planet. Basically, they are waiting only for the end of the planet and human existance thereon.

Since the Jews don't believe that Jesus was Messiah in the first place, so they are awaiting the Messiah. They look to a literal fulfillment of the law, and rulership over the planet, lol. Sorry for the laugh, it just reminds me of "Pinky and the Brain".

Muslims believe that the bible predicted the coming of Muhammed. They see him as "the comforter" while Christians and Jews see "the comforter" as the Holy Spirit of God. They also await another return of Jesus, and accompanying him will be "Mahdi", who will change the world into a perfect Islamic society.

I just realized that even Christians look forward to a day that all of the "bad people" (non-Christians and those who disagree with their own doctrines) will be wiped off of the planet. Looks like all three religions have a very "Pinky and the Brain" (http://www.moviewavs.com/php/sounds/?id=bst&media=WAVS&type=TV_Shows&movie=Pinky_And_The_Brain&quote=pinky-gb.txt&file=pinky-gb.wav) outlook, lol!



Amie

[backtothefuture]

Thanks Amie. I liked the explanation of the Star of David. I also read today each triangle, one represents the sacred feminine (back to that again) and the other the sacred male.
I tried to open up Pinky and the brain, would not work. But I will see if my Son can get it for me. He is the computer brain around here!
Nancy

[Amie]

The "Pinky and the Brain" thing is just a silly quote.

Isn't it interesting though, what you reminded me about the triangle, when God called the Church, "Bride"?

Cool,

Amie

[davo]

There is also this further prophetic thought regarding David, and then ultimately David's greater Son:

Num 24:17 "I see him, but not now; I behold him, but not near. A star will come out of Jacob; a scepter will rise out of Israel. He will crush the foreheads of Moab, the skulls of all the sons of Sheth.

[backtothefuture]

Davo,
So if Jesus was "the Star of David", how in the world did his people miss it? I don't think I will ever understand that. All the signs were there for them. Way more than for us who had to figure it out later.
I don't understand, how if Jesus was sent to a certain people, why on earth were their eyes blinded?
So now you have a religion, Christianity, whose roots are Jewish. But the Jewish people (most anyway) don't want to acknowledge that. But on the other hand you have lots of Evangelicals that support and believe heavy in the "Holy Land" and that the Jews are still God's chosen people:confused:
Most Jewish people would not where a cross around their necks, but I know several Christian people who like to where the Star of David?
AGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Nancy;)

[Amie]

Nancy,

I'm looking forward to hearing what Davo says myself. My thought is that the "Jews" of today are not at all the "Jews" of ancient days. Their religion is different than that of ancient Israel, and from what I understand their bloodline isn't the same either. There was a show on called "the face of Jesus" (you can read some about it here too: http://archives.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/12/25/face.jesus/index.html). They began with a very old Israeli/Hebrew skull and according to the scientist on the program, there are no skulls like that around today because there are no people like that around today.

Many Christians who consider today's Jews as "God's chosen people" define "generation" as "a people". #1, they are a different people, #2 the word is used in terms of the lifetime of the listener at all places in the New Testament and in Greek period (they just claim the other meaning), and #3, that belief is antisemetic to the core imo. Consider this:

Mt 3:7
But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come ?

Mt 12:34
O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

Mt 23:33
Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Lu 3:7
Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

If they apply "generation" to the Jews today, then they are calling them "vipers" and "evil" as well.

Amie

[davo]

So if Jesus was "the Star of David", how in the world did his people miss it?Hi Nancy and Amie, my "guess" is that they in their time were looking for a kingdom that would match and defeat the Romans i.e., an earthly kingdom -- something that Jesus rejected [Jn 6:15; Act 1:6], which in turn led to them rejecting Jesus as King [Jn 19:15; Lk 19:14; Jn 1:11] -- Jesus of course also said "my kingdom is not of this world". Israel was looking for a religio-political Saviour. Jesus came into Jerusalem and instead of turning right and routing the fortress Antonia, Rome's seat of authority in Jerusalem, he turned left and caused no amount of ruckus in the Temple -- not a way to win friends and influence people :eek: .


I don't understand, how if Jesus was sent to a certain people, why on earth were their eyes blinded?Again God's masterstroke I suspect -- Israel's blindness was the Gentiles inclusion, which in turn wrought the salvation of all Israel covenantally speaking [Rom 11:1, 11-12, 15, 25-29]. Yes many did literally die in the outworking of this, BOTH obedient and disobedient.


Most Jewish people would not where a cross around their necks, but I know several Christian people who like to where the Star of David?
AGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHYeah go figure :conf44: .

[backtothefuture]

The nation Israel in the beginning. All those who came out of Egypt, were they of all faiths and backgrounds? I am just trying to figure out when the "Jewish" race was actually started and if that was the line Christ came through, why is it now no longer in existence just because perhaps there really are no more "pure" would you say, Jewish race?
Amie, I have read some on about the Jewish race kind of being assimilated into other races, so therefore there technically is not a Jewish race anymore. What would your Rabbi friend say do you think? Do most of the Jewish people today lay claim to one of the 12 tribes then?
I do see Davo, how by the Jews rejecting the spiritual kingdom of Jesus that opened up doors for the Gentiles, but am not sure that is a win win situation??
If someone was not born Jewish by todays standards (and I have no idea what that would be) how would they become Jewish. Convert I suppose.
The Gentiles were grafted into Christianity, how are Christians then grafted into being Jewish if they wanted to be. Then there is that old question, is being Jewish a race or a religion.
And the Star of David? Maybe it can symbolize more than I think:eek:
Or maybe I need to go back over tot the Da Vinci Code forum:biggrinbounce:
Nancy

[Amie]

Nancy,

I have often wondered how a person could convert to an ethnicity, lol. Seriously, I think the convert is looked at as an adopted member and after the third or so generation, the children considered blood.

Jacob was a man whose story begins at about Genesis 25. God chose to pass the blessing through his bloodline. In Genesis 32, Jacob submisses/is defeated to God and God changes his name to "Israel" (God prevails).

Israel has 12 sons: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Zebulun, Dan, Issachar, Asher, Naphatali, Joseph, Gad, and Benjamin. They are each given blessings in Genesis 49.

"Back in the day" (the OT day), by my understanding the father was always head of the house. This wasn't a position of authority or rank as it is often used today. They believed that he was the biological source of the offspring for one. For another, he was the protector.

Their tents were divided into two sections. The back section was for the women and children. The "father" of them all slept just by the opening of the tent (the door opened into the front section) to protect his family. Men are still biologically stronger (most of the time).

When a son would start his own family, he would take his wife into their own tent.

Within the 'tribal father' lied the wisdom and experience that protected their livelihood. As well, they viewed him as the source of all of the life within the tribe, therefore he was to be honored. Back then lots of babies meant that God loved you a bunch, heh.

That 'tribal father' was literally father of the entire "house".

So, there were the twelve tribes (his son's households and their sons) of the house of Israel.

"Judah" was actually just one of those tribes. The other tribes had scattered by the time of Jesus.

The Jewish people therefore lay claim to the bloodline of the tribe of Judah. I don't think so, but I'm not where the buck stops. I have a lot to learn myself. If you do some research, I would love to know what you find.

Consider this: All Israel was prophesied to be saved (Romans 11:26,27 and Isaiah 59:20,21). The tribes were scattered into the Gentile nations.

Amie

[backtothefuture]

Thanks Amie,
I think I have been watching to much news this week. I am suffering with a root canal gone wrong and watching a lot of news on what is going on in Israel.
Seeing so much of the Star of David has got me thinking some.
I think where a lot of my problem lays is in the way most people look at the Country, State, Nation, whatever it really is of Israel today. That is not the Israel of the Bible right? Just like the Jews today are not the Jews of the Bible, right?? But they have wrongly been associated with this right????
Would the Israel of the Bible today really be everyone? All humanity then, not just this parcel of land sitting over in the middle east???
If it was prophesied that all of Israel was to be saved, than we all must be technically, spiritually, humanilly (don't know if that is a real word) Israel.
God's church, God's Body. The Bible says, in my house are many mansions. I like to think of that as we are all a mansion:)
Anyway, thanks for your input. I couldn't even follow myself there for a while:biggrinbounce:
Nancy
ps. I liked what you said about tents and the father.I like to think that my heavenly father is standing watch over my tent. ME!! Have you ever read the book The Red Tent?

[christyG]

It is late and I do not really have anything to add at this point. I really just wanted to express to Nancy that I like the thoughts going on in your head and I think you are asking great questions.:clap2:

Christy

[Lauri]

Nancy,
I don't know much about this subject but I have heard that all of the records of the Jews and there roots of which tribe they ascended from were kept in the temple. So when it was destroyed all those records were destroyed as well so there is no longer anyway now for a Jewish person to trace their roots to find out which tribe they came from. Just thought I'd throw that in.

Lauri

[Amie]

Nancy,

I do not think that we are the Israel of the bible, though I do think that Israel received their inheritance for all - if that makes sense.

As for are they the people of the bible, as I said I really don't think so but the "buck doesn't stop with me" - I'm still learning myself. They claim that they are, they believe that they are. Have you considered Googling this or looking it up in the library? I would love to hear what you learn.

Lauri,

Good to "see" ya back around!

I've read that there were issues too because Jews didn't have "surnames" until later, the women's names changed often, two world wars messed up lineage, etc.

I lean toward their not being the blood relatives of the Israel of the bible - but when you think about it, we all may be related to them in some way.

Amie

[backtothefuture]

Amie,
All the research I have done, all depends on what camp you are in. The Evangelicals, some say the tribes are scattered. That The state of Israel today is happening just as Bible prophecy would say. They the Jewish people are coming back to their own place.
Those in the fulfillment camp, would say, the Israel today, is not the Israel that God made the covenant with in the Bible.
So I guess since I am looking at things more from a fulfillment picture, what would you say the State of Israel means today, Biblically? Anything at all?
And then I thought of the verse in the Bible where the Disciples are told to go preach first to the lost sheep. But Maybe I mis understand that verse in the correct content. I always assumed that meant the Jews.

On another note. The evangelical world, gives a lot of support to Israel, because of Bible prophecy. But by helping Israel become a state, according to Fundamental Prophesy, aren't they just helping move things along as far as Jesus coming back and the end of the world?

Thanks everyone for the input. One of those weeks with a lot of strange questions.
Nancy:D

[Amie]

Nancy,

I think that everything is fulfilled, so I don't see Israel having any special meaning today, no. The "lost sheep" was Israel, and none are lost any longer. Everyone is redeemed imo.

Some "end time" views would see helping Israel as helping to move things along, yep.

Personally, I like your questions :)

Amie

[backtothefuture]

Thanks Amie that you like my questions, or can even understand them for that matter:biggrinbounce:
I get like these Oprah light bulb moments and just don't always know how to explain what I am thinking. But you all here do such a good job of figuring it out with me.
Mostly, I just wish the entire world could get along. When I saw the star of David so much this week on the news, It just took me on a walk back into the old testament. Somewhere I am usually afraid to go, because I don't understand it much. Then seeing so many innocent children and families killed and so badly wounded in all the situations going on in the middle East, I feel so hopeless at times about it, and about a healing of the nations.
I actually saw a commercial on TV yesterday. It had child after child asking there mom, what should we do, mom what should we do. Then then next caption said, Do you have a plan? Do you know what to do in a terrorist attack. I just about fell off my chair. Which would have just given me another bruise on my face next to the one from the root canal.
I wish the Star of David could stand for peace and the Cross stand for Grace and what ever the Muslims use for their faith, it was stand for love for all humanity. I just don't know how this is ever going to happen.
Thanks for all the input.
Nancy;)

[christyG]

Nancy,

Your hope is my hope. I really think it can happen through the thoughts, prayers and love of each individual. I also got tired of sitting around and watching the violence and not knowing what to do but feeling I must do something. I have found some web sites that I frequent that keep me in touch with world events, and they give ideas for participating in both big and small ways. I like: The One campaign at www.one.orgwhich is support and promoted by many celebrities. I also like Unicef,www.unicef.org, they have LOTS of information about tragedies around the world and ideas for helping. Actually I am using information from them and a series they promoted on PBS to teach my children about world issues, they have a great site just for kids also! I write letters to my congressmen and women asking them to support issues, there is a great site I go to for that, I can give it to you later if you are interested. But for Nancy, I would highly recommend starting at: www.peaceisthewayglobalcommunity.org this is a really great site started by Deepak Chopra. I think the site transcends religion so I think it would appeal to anyone of any faith. This site has daily prayers for peace that I think you might enjoy.

Christy

[backtothefuture]

Thanks Christy for the links. I have them saved so I can read on them tomorrow. We have been having some power outages here with the extreme heat. So all of our computers came crashing down again yesterday.
I do hope there will be a time in history where we can all live together in harmony. But it hasn't happened yet, so I find I get pretty discouraged about the world. So many things done in the name of God, that are just horrendous.
Maybe small steps towards a healing of humanity is all it takes.
I have been reading everything you have posted on the other forums. I find you journey so exciting for you. The more we learn, the harder it is to go backwards don't you think? Best of luck on your learning journey and may the desires of your heart, find a way to be evident to you during your process.
Blessings,
Nancy

[Amie]

Nancy,

On postt #16 here: http://talk-grace.com/showthread.php?p=3549#post3549, I made some comments that offer my view up at least, concerning your thoughts about where the world may be headed.

Have you ever been at the doctor for an illness and after having gotten a shot or a prescription thought (or said) "It's hard to believe people died from this not to long ago"? What about when you had your children? Did you imagine having them even 20 years earlier? I would have definately died in childbirth with my first born!

This article is a good, shortish read I think too: http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=123606. I'll share with you the last paragraph :)


Moore sums it up nicely, "Every generation has always felt like things are getting worse rather than getting better, when in fact every objective standard of life on Earth and safety and health is showing much improvement. We should feel so lucky to be alive today."

The star of David has come (Jesus) and set the feast before us. All solutions that benefit us exist, we only need to go out and find them.

Amie

[Amie]

Another good article about the future: http://www.thebannercommunity.com/articles.php?id=25

[Paige]

Amie wrote:
The star of David has come (Jesus) and set the feast before us. All solutions that benefit us exist, we only need to go out and find them.

:clap2: :clap2: :clap2: I'm very encouraged by those words. Thanks you for sharing them!

Paige

[backtothefuture]

Amie, I loved what you said. The Star of Jesus has come and set the feast before us. What a great way for me to start my day:biggrinbounce:
You are right in what you say about things really getting better, when so many of us think of them as getting worse. We were just talking with my son yesterday during a power outage, on what would it have been like 100 years ago. We were talking about ice blocks to keep food cool of all things.
I guess part of the problem is we are a society that wants it now. When the power went out for 3 hours, you would have thought the end of the world came in this house. Instead we got to go outside and visit with our neighbors.
Thanks for the links also.
Blessings
Nancy