Flesh and Blood

[backtothefuture]

Hi,
I have been reading in the 15th chapter of 1 Corinthians today.
I was wondering about verse 50 where is reads, flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does corruption inherit incorruption.
Does the flesh in this verse refer to the old covenant? You can't enter by the law? and the blood, the new, entering by the shed blood of Christ? Then I was wondering what corruption was referring to. Again the Law?

Also the verse above that 49, says we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear, the image of the heavenly Man. Is that a physical image or a spiritual image by any chance?

Any input would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Nancy:biggrinbounce:

[Paige]

Nancy,

My thoughts are that "flesh and blood" have to do with the fleshly, OC, natural man. I don't see how it could be referring to the physical body as Jesus talked much about the Kingdom, and from what I gather we experience it (the Kingdom) while we are living.

I do also think that when Paul is referring to the "image", he is speaking in spiritual terms. IOW, the same way one was "dead in their trespasses and sins" they were also bearing the "image" of the man of dust.

Hope that helps...

Paige

[Lou]

Adam, death, corruptible and such are terms used for OC man were life and incorruptible and such would come with the consummation of the NC.

Something that often gets lost is that those in the OC would be covered at that consummation just as the NC Church would be.


52&53 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, in the last trumpet, for it shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we--we shall be changed: for it behoveth this corruptible to put on incorruption, and this mortal to put on immortality;

[Amie]

I think that Old Covenant man was a good representation of what would happen when "flesh and blood" was in charge.

What I see as "flesh and blood" has to do with perception, and the way life is lived because of it. For example, "thou shalt not murder" was understood in their limited perception as "unjustly taking a life". Jesus though, compares it to being unjustly angry at their "brother" (Matthew 5:21,22).

He is looking at the law through the "eyes of the spirit", rather than through the more limited "eyes of the flesh".

So, I see "flesh and blood" as metaphor, not always just for the Law of Moses, but for that which the Law of Moses was representing.

Flesh and blood revealed things to them (interpretation), as did 'spirit'.


He said to them, But you, whom do you say Me to be? And answering, Simon Peter said, You are the Christ, the Son of the living God. And answering, Jesus said to him, Blessed are you, Simon, son of Jonah, for flesh and blood did not reveal it to you, but My Father in Heaven."

John 1:12-13 reads


But as many as received Him, to them He gave authority to become children of God, to the ones believing into His name, who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but were born of God.

As I see it, this is saying that those who 'believed into His name' were sort of 'born again'.

In John 3, Jesus talks about being born "of the water" (via the womb), and then being generated "of the spirit". In verse 6 He says "That having been generated out of the flesh is flesh, and that having been generated out of the Spirit is spirit".

The receiving (inheriting) of the Kingdom was done by the church then. The enjoying of the Kingdom is for all to do.

In John 6, Jesus says that He is the bread of life and unless one "eat His flesh" and "drink His blood", they had no life in them. It is the spiritual flesh and blood of Christ that obtains the Kingdom.

By the limited perception of the flesh, sacrifice had to do with literal animals. This was fulfilled in the broader scope:


11 ¶ But Christ having appeared as a High Priest of the coming good things, through the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation,
12 nor through the blood of goats and of calves, but through His own blood, He entered once for all into the Holy of Holies, having procured everlasting redemption.
13 For if the blood of bulls and goats, and ashes of a heifer sprinkling those having been defiled, sanctifies to the purity of the flesh,
14 by how much more the blood of Christ (who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God), will purify your conscience from dead works, to serve the living God!

That fulfillment was a one time thing. At that point, redemption had been obtained.

Human perception was not the bad guy. What people did with those perceptions was:



12 because wrestling against flesh and blood is not to us, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the world's rulers, of the darkness of this age, against the spiritual powers of evil in the heavenlies.

The "weakness of the flesh" was overcome by Jesus. He fulfilled the Law in all righteousness and it was not possible to do that with the limited perception and understanding that humanity had.


3 For the Law being powerless, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and concerning sin, condemned sin in the flesh,
4 so that the righteous demand of the Law might be fulfilled in us, those not walking according to flesh, but according to Spirit.
5 For the ones that are according to flesh mind the things of the flesh. And the ones according to Spirit mind the things of the Spirit.
6 For the mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace;
7 because the mind of the flesh is enmity towards God; for it is not being subjected to the Law of God, for neither can it be.
8 And those being in the flesh are not able to please God.
9 But you are not in flesh, but in Spirit, since the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone has not the Spirit of Christ, this one is not His.

In Matthew 26, Jesus awaits the next day - which would bring him death and prays and cries. He goes (returns) to his friends to find them sleeping. He does NOT say that the flesh is evil, he says "Watch and pray, that you do not enter into temptation. The spirit indeed is eager, but the flesh is weak."

What temptation might he have been talking about in which they would need to overcome biological challenges? In verse 40 he says to Peter "So! Were you not able to watch one hour with Me?" Again I ask, "Watch for what?" My thought is for the soldiers that were about to take him away. If they watched and prayed, they would be less likely to fall asleep (giving in to temptation).

He goes again to pray, and returns again finding them sleeping and says nothing. He leaves again to pray returning yet again and says "Sleep on, and rest for what time remains." He didn't condemn the flesh, he understood it. He also understood that it is weak.

The spirit and the flesh represent two types of perception. One we have because we are flesh, the other we have because we are also more.

Flesh also has to do with genetics. Jesus inherited David's throne "according to the flesh" (Acts 2:30, Romans 1:3). Man and woman "became one flesh" (had offspring - became a family). Good genes wouldn't inherit the Kingdom any more than the limited perception of the flesh would.

Again, I think that the Law of Mose represented flesh run amuk (in so many words). For example "circumcision" is metaphor for the Law of Moses. Romans 2:28 calls it outward - in the flesh. This is contrasted to the inward circumcision of the heart, which is metaphor for the New Covenant (Hebrews 8:8-12 and prophesied in Jeremiah 31).



31 Behold, the days come, says Jehovah, that I will cut a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,
32 not according to the covenant that I cut with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt (which covenant of Mine they broke, although I was a husband to them, says Jehovah).
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will cut with the house of Israel: After those days, declares Jehovah, I will put My Law in their inward parts, and I will write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
34 And they shall no longer each man teach his neighbor, and each man his brother, saying, Know Jehovah. For they shall all know Me, from the least of them even to the greatest of them, declares Jehovah. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sins no more.

Do I think that every single human being pre-Jesus only perceived things through the flesh? No, I don't. I think that, borrowing Christy's language, people were "in touch with the divine" as well. I'm not sure that flesh ever mattered, but Israel sought to justify it (Romans 3:20) and served as the perfect example for every human being that seeks the same. It just ain't gonna happen. We are perfect human beings, we will never ever, be God. That does not mean that we do not strive to become like who we love, that means that we can work toward it, without condemnation.


My thoughts for now, I'm open to learn new things...

Amie

[davo]

Hi Nancy, in line pretty much with the guys above, I put it this way.

In much of Paul's writings the flesh = the law – the life of SELF sufficiency/righteousness.

Gal 3:2-3 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?

Paul in speaking of "the flesh" is not always speaking in terms of tangible bodies, but rather living life according to the law i.e., self sufficiency, or as he often encountered – self-righteousness. Just read Paul's use of flesh in Phil 3:2-6 and note he is not talking about his physical body, but his identity as a Hebrew when he was under the Law. More specifically, his lack of confidence in the flesh [vs 3] while actually referring to circumcision [a very literal act], was referring rather to the self-righteousness of it; it was this that he was railing against.

When Paul speaks in 1Cor 15:50 of "flesh and blood" he is actually talking about Law and Linage – the two elements in which the Judaizers made their boast, i.e., what they were trusting in their own righteousness, as they saw it, in keeping Torah and claiming Abrahamic heritage. Thus Flesh and Blood equates to Law and Linage, as per:

Jn 5:45 Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you—Moses [Torah], in whom you trust.

Jn 8:39 They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would do the works of Abraham.

Now "inheriting" the kingdom speaks NOT of getting to heaven post death, but rather the graining of "son-ship" in this life in Christ. Something they then were awaiting fullness of via the Parousia. To "inherit" was/is to "reign in life" – something requiring faith in Christ:

Rom 5:17 For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive [actively grasp] abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)

Thus reigning in life = bearing "the image of the heavenly man".

[Barry]

Hi Nancy and everyone.
In short, IMHO "independent human potential" (the implication being "human potential" standing in its own capacity).
IE. the old covenant man cannot inherit into the kingdom of God as an old covenant man.

Gal. 1:16, 3:3
Linked to the law as this then stood for human potential (self-righteousness).
With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible (Matt. 19:26).
"Blood" touches on the subject of "blood lines" or genealogies.
So those "teachers of the law" in 1 Tim. 1:7 taught "endless genealogies" (1:4).
God insight Nancy IMO.

Barry

[Barry]

Davo, LOL!

[davo]

Too quick for you mate :p

[backtothefuture]

Gosh you guys, You really know how to explain things. As I have read more this year on Fulfillment, I can see more and more how Flesh relates to the OC. I just don't understand how in this age, "flesh" is always related to sin. If that is really true, than what good did it do for Jesus to die on the cross? If all is not fulfilled and most preaching is done today on flesh being sin, than something is not right here.
My evangelical background just constantly pounded into us that walking in the flesh was sin. Never once in 35 years till recently did I know it even related to the OC.

How many times have I sung that song "What can wash away my sins, Nothing but the blood of Jesus".
Thats one of the reasons I thought Flesh and Blood also carried into the NC.
But to have to keep asking and asking for forgiveness with God. You get in a vicious circle of never feeling good enough.

So, when the Bible says, Flesh and Blood can not enter the kingdom of God. That was only up until the parusia was ushered in?? And the end of the law? After that, we are all ushered in to the kingdom, that is here and now? Am I getting any of this right;)

Also, on a little side note. I would be able to work through some of your thoughts if someone would be kind enough to tell me how to cut and paste one of your comments into the replay I want to reply to. Sorry, I am so computer illiterate. Then maybe I can even follow myself better:biglaugha:
Thanks all
Nancy

[Paige]

Also, on a little side note. I would be able to work through some of your thoughts if someone would be kind enough to tell me how to cut and paste one of your comments into the replay I want to reply to. Sorry, I am so computer illiterate. Then maybe I can even follow myself better

Nancy, here is what I do... Left click on what you want to quote and highlight it. Then right click on that. You should see a menu pop down. Select "copy". Now, in your post that you are working on, on the top you should see a yelloe icon that looks like converstaion in a cartoon. Left click on that. You should see something that looks like this...

[QUOTE][QUOTE]

In between the two "quotes" you will want to right click. Another menu should pop down. Select "paste". What you should see is the text you highlighted showing up in between the two "quotes". Don't type anything else inside that, or it will also show up as a quote. You want to make sure that what you type personally after the last thing that looks like this - [QUOTE]

Hope that helps.

Paige

[backtothefuture]

Nancy, here is what I do... Left click on what you want to quote and highlight it. Then right click on that. You should see a menu pop down. Select "copy". Now, in your post that you are working on, on the top you should see a yelloe icon that looks like conversation in a cartoon. Left click on that. You should see something that looks like this...


Oh my gosh Paige, Did I do this right:)
I printed off your directions. I guess I will post this and see if it worked.
Thanks so much if it did. I never would have figured this out.
Nancy

[Paige]

It looks like you're on your way! :)

Paige