Kingdom now?

[Amie]

I've heard folks doubt the reality of the Kingdom, based on the state of the world. Personally, I feel that human beings will always be human. I wouldn't forecast a perfect world filled with gods.

I do though, think that things will continue to improve as they have - we becoming better stewards of "what is".

I'm wondering.. could and of these parables/symbolic language apply past the parousia?

Matthew 13
31 He put another parable before them, saying: The kingdom of Heaven is compared to a grain of mustard, which taking, a man sowed in his field;
32 which indeed is less than all the seeds, but when it is grown it is greater than the plants, and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the heaven come and roost in its branches.
33 He spoke another parable to them: The kingdom of Heaven is compared to leaven, which taking, a woman hid in three measures of meal until the whole was leavened.

Luke 17
5 And the apostles said to the Lord, Give us more faith.
6 But the Lord said, If you had faith as a grain of mustard, you may say to this sycamine tree, Be rooted up and be planted in the sea! And it would obey you.
7 But which of you having a slave plowing or feeding will say at once to him coming out of the field, Come, recline?
8 But will he not say to him, Prepare something what I may eat, and having girded yourself, serve me until I eat and drink, and after these things you shall eat and drink?
9 Does not he have thanks to that slave because he did the things commanded of him? I think not.
10 So also when you have done all things commanded you, you say, We are unprofitable slaves, for we have done what we ought to do.

Thanks ahead,

Amie

[Barry]

Hi sis. These are some of my random thoughts on these verses :D

I've heard folks doubt the reality of the Kingdom, based on the state of the world. Personally, I feel that human beings will always be human. I wouldn't forecast a perfect world filled with gods.

I do though, think that things will continue to improve as they have - we becoming better stewards of "what is".

I'm wondering.. could and of these parables/symbolic language apply past the parousia?
IMHO they speak more of a final result and not so much as "past".



Matthew 13
31 He put another parable before them, saying: The kingdom of Heaven is compared to a grain of mustard, which taking, a man sowed in his field;
32 which indeed is less than all the seeds, but when it is grown it is greater than the plants, and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the heaven come and roost in its branches.
33 He spoke another parable to them: The kingdom of Heaven is compared to leaven, which taking, a woman hid in three measures of meal until the whole was leavened.

IMO this speaks of the transistion period as being hard for the "outsiders" to see what was going on. They could see something was happening but could not see what was really happening (John 3:8)



Luke 17
5 And the apostles said to the Lord, Give us more faith.
6 But the Lord said, If you had faith as a grain of mustard, you may say to this sycamine tree, Be rooted up and be planted in the sea! And it would obey you.
7 But which of you having a slave plowing or feeding will say at once to him coming out of the field, Come, recline?
8 But will he not say to him, Prepare something what I may eat, and having girded yourself, serve me until I eat and drink, and after these things you shall eat and drink?
9 Does not he have thanks to that slave because he did the things commanded of him? I think not.
10 So also when you have done all things commanded you, you say, We are unprofitable slaves, for we have done what we ought to do.

Romans 12:1 "your reasonable service"
The first-friuts were not to glory as the old creature would try to glory (IMO).

Barry

[ozark]

So the scribe said to Him, "Well said, Teacher. You have spoken the truth, for there is one God, and there is no other but He. And to love Him with all the heart, with all the understanding, with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love one’s neighbor as oneself, is more than all the whole burnt offerings and sacrifices."

Now when Jesus saw that he answered wisely, He said to him, "You are not far from the kingdom of God."

But after that no one dared question Him. (Mark 12:32-34)


How could this man be "not far from the kingdom" if it was some perfect world way off in the future? I think if people would take time to read what Jesus said about the kingdom, there would be no doubt of its true nature.

[Amie]

IMO this speaks of the transistion period as being hard for the "outsiders" to see what was going on. They could see something was happening but could not see what was really happening (John 3:8)

When you emphasize the "leaven" that way, that's clear :). I wonder the significance of "..so that the birds of the heaven come and roost in its branches". Do you think that there is any?


How could this man be "not far from the kingdom" if it was some perfect world way off in the future?

Could that not be explained away as a metaphor for this person's state of mind/way of thinking/presence of heart?

Amie

[ozark]

Could that not be explained away as a metaphor for this person's state of mind/way of thinking/presence of heart?



When we take a look at Jesus teachings about the kingdom, it is impossible to think he was talking about a perfect world way off in the future. The same goes for Paul. He saw the kingdom as an already present reality. Moreover, the new creation and the heavenly Jerusalem were also already present realities. If all these things are simply a state of mind, then Christianity is merely a state of mind.