Spiritual warfare

[backtothefuture]

Hi,
i was wondering if someone could lead me to an article on the subject of spiritual warfare and what that means for today. What did it mean before 70ad and what does it means for today. What powers and principalities were the first fruits waring against?
I have a friend who is having a terrible time of things and firmly believes she is in spiritual warfare. I told her I didn't believe that the devil was walking around anymore causing grief to everyone. There is evil in the world and evil people, but I didn't believe in spiritual warfare like the way I use to. But maybe I am wrong. I think I hurt her feelings also, and I feel bad about that. I just kind of blurted it out. So maybe I need to read up on it so I can explain it better to her and not hurt her belief system.
Thanks.
Nancy

[jlv]

Nancy,

None of us deserve all the bad stuff that happens to us. So either God isn't fair or someone is attacking us to stop us from being effective. And we all know that we are effective for God. The only choice left is persecution by the devil.

Any book you find on spiritual warfare will just feed your friend's feelings of persecution by the devil. It won't help her do what she can to make things better.

JL

[backtothefuture]

I know that JL. But wasn't able to explain it to her from a fulfillment view now. Why don't we believe that there is spiritual warfare and what did that mean in the bible when they talked about the devil roaming around trying to destroy everyone.
I want her to see, that in HER eyes, being up against the devil she won't win. But having God on her side, he will walk her through it. At least I hope so. My faith is just not just what it use to be or mean, so I don't know how to encourage her. She is really in a terrible situation.
She also has an 85 year old, Assembly of God mother, who is always telling her the victory is already won. She sees a big victory for her daughter. And I am like starting to say, I don't think that is happening here.
Anyway, Thanks for the note back.
Nancy

[ozark]

I believe part of the problem is that most Christians believe we are still in the transitional period between the covenants. Satan was still the opponent of the saints, but as Paul says in the book of Romans:

The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you. (Rom 16:20)

The Devil definitely had ties to the old covenant world. When that world passed, so did he.

Some preterists believe that Satan was of human origin and not a fallen angel or some sort of spiritual being. Others take the more traditional approach.

What matters is what your friend believes, and her beliefs are obviously very strong. In one sentence you challenged her whole worldview. You called upon her to change the way she looks at herself and the world. Such change usually does not come easily. Yet, if she loves the truth, perhaps she will take the time to search out what you are saying.

[Paige]

Nancy,

Something else I'm starting to very clearly see, is that our thoughts project what comes to us. Example:

When we think in the negative, we live negatively. People that continually talk about how fat they are and unhappy they are, will likely stay fat and unhappy. (A crude analogy, I know.) If they could begin to turn the thoughts around to the positive, they would find themselves making some real progress toward their goals.

Scripture tells us that as a man thinks in his heart, so is he. As long as your friend believes she is in a battle, then she is in a battle. Perhaps the first steps that can be taken with her is showing her how the Apostle Paul instructed us to think in the positive. "Finally my brethren..." Phil. 4:8.

It could be a start.

Paige

[alicia]

You are so right Paige! I was just reading an article in my RN magazine that was talking about spirituality and health. It states:

"The freedon to explore spirituality can be critical to a patient's health. When people feel abandoned or punished by God, its hard for them to rally themselves to heal. Conversely, when people believe God is with them and will support them, their ability to withstand pain is much greater."

It was a great article. It also talked about ministering to caregivers and the "battle weary" police officers, EMTs, and other emergency workers.

Alicia

[backtothefuture]

Thanks everyone,
See, my friend thinks God is punishing her and that is why she is in the battle with her X. I know that is not true and I think in her heart she does also. Is so all goes back to our fundamental upbringing, which I am trying to leave in the dust. But darn, if that stuff is so powerful. Especially when you suffer and feel abandonment on top of it. So then you start the cycle all over, if you were a good Christian, you wouldn't be suffering. My friends mom, called her today and told her all her problems are because she is not tithing! I just rode with her to her lawyers office. I told her that is not true.
I really really need to get a grasp on what leaving one covenant and going into another and eventually fulfillment means for me today. I am taking little steps, but I am determined to learn the truth.
Some days I am overwhelmed with trying to figure it like so many of you have. But I really want to be able to understand.
If there is no such thing as spiritual warfare, is there such a thing as angels do any of you know:)

If Satan was crushed, and I do believe that. Is the evil in this world, just evil then? Or more like consequences of bad decisions, thoughts etc.

Blessings'
Nancy

[Paige]

Nancy,

I think it is the book of James in the NT that makes it pretty clear that we don't need to have a devil for evil to exist. I'm leaning toward everything having consequences. Consequences can be both positive and negative, and they can effect more than just ourselves.

Paige

[Amie]

Is the evil in this world, just evil then? Or more like consequences of bad decisions, thoughts etc.

If "evil" is just "calamity", then perhaps it is both.

There's no magic words that will suddenly make our friends change their thinking. As well, a big part of fulfillment (to me anyway) means that they are free to think differently. It's hard when we know they're suffering I know.

I learned more from other people by their thought-provoking questions, than by their sharing the answers. Questions don't have to begin with advanced theology/bible studies, you could ask something as simple as "What if God loves you as you are?" or "What if there were no spiritual war, what would that mean?" or "When Pastors disagree, how do we know who is right?".. stuff like that maybe?

The bible definately talks about "angels" as does other ancient texts. To me, the perfect definition is "messenger of God". I don't think that they are an entity by themselves. I think that they are people, whether they are from the next world, or alive and here and now. I think that in the bible, they had direct messages and maybe even work today.

A friend of mine sees people who have made large impacts in her life as her "angels", and she thinks that they enter her life 'on purpose' (like they're ordained, or God-sent). I think that happens too.

When my husband first got out of the military, we were staying with his Mom for a bit. He had gotten a night job, and I was up reading a book - everyone else in bed. I heard someone call my name, "Amie.." At first I was afraid to see who it was, then I mentally laughed off my fear. I mean, it could have been my husband's sister still up or something (she still lived at home).

I went into the living room and looked around - no one there. Then I heard it again in the other direction. I went to his sister's doorway and listened to see if she was up and calling from there (it was a girl or woman's voice). Then, I heard it just behind me ("Amie!") and when I turned, I saw my then 4 year old son still asleep and sliding head first from his top bunk!!

I straightened him out and obsessively tucked him in. I didn't sleep well that night. I asked the next day whether anyone had called my name out that night. No one had, nor had anyone heard anyone else saying my name.

I have a friend that works in the part of the hospital where people that are dying go. As a part of their training, they're taught to be very careful what they say, and to expect these people to talk of seeing long dead family members and unnamed people who calm them (when no one has entered the wing).

I hope that I haven't gone too far off on a tangent with the 'angel' stories. I think I needed that question though, to remind me of my own experience.

Amie