Covenants

[backtothefuture]

I think this was answered a long time ago. But I was wondering, how many covenants did God give in the Old and New Testament?
Are will still under one?
Has God promised to stay in Covenant with us, even after fulfillment?
Thanks,
Nancy:rolleyes:

[Amie]

Nancy,

I found a pretty decent breakdown here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covenant_(Israel)

If the writer is suggesting that the New Covenant equates the books of the New Testament I would definately disagree. Hebrews 8:8-12 and Jer 31:31-34 define it as follows:


Behold, the days come, says Jehovah, that I will cut a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, not according to the covenant that I cut with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt (which covenant of Mine they broke, although I was a husband to them, says Jehovah). But this shall be the covenant that I will cut with the house of Israel: After those days, declares Jehovah, I will put My Law in their inward parts, and I will write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. And they shall no longer each man teach his neighbor, and each man his brother, saying, Know Jehovah. For they shall all know Me, from the least of them even to the greatest of them, declares Jehovah. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sins no more.

Amie

[Lou]

I think this was answered a long time ago. But I was wondering, how many covenants did God give in the Old and New Testament?
Are will still under one?
Has God promised to stay in Covenant with us, even after fulfillment?
Thanks,
Nancy:rolleyes:




Nancy I believe we aIre the “children” of the New Covenant and are not in covenant. Therefore we have no covenantal obligations as srael did under the Old Covenant. Our relationship with God is as a Father to child, nothing that can stop us from being God’s children.

[backtothefuture]

Thanks Amie and Lou.
Amie I went to the site you sent and could open only some of it. There are some who would say we are in what is called the Palestinian covenant. I have never heard of such a thing. I think it falls under the Evangelical thinking that Israel, the country is just for the purpose of Gods chosen coming back and claiming that. I don't know. Has anyone ever heard of this covenant?
Nancy

[Amie]

Nancy,

I'm not sure why it's called "Palestianian covenant", but they're referring to Deuteronomy 29 and 30:1-10. Basically it just seems to be talking about the ingathering of Israel to the land of their fathers.

The question is how that ingathering was played out, and to exactly what land they returned.

Some of Israel had been scattered, and lived amongst or bred in with Gentiles. To gather them back, would mean to gather the Gentiles I would think. I think that God did that in redeeming all to Himself.

I think that the literal land was a type for the spiritual land that they inherited.

What do you think? Anymore thoughts Lou?

Amie

[Lou]

Today many “Christians” claim that the “land of Israel” belongs to the Jews because God gave it to them. Some even say that God has yet give Israel all the land promised. Let’s look at what the Bible says.


Israel’s Land



Josh 21:43-45

So the LORD gave to Israel all the land of which He had sworn to give to their fathers, and they took possession of it and dwelt in it. 44 The LORD gave them rest all around, according to all that He had sworn to their fathers. And not a man of all their enemies stood against them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand. 45 Not a word failed of any good thing which the LORD had spoken to the house of Israel. All came to pass.
NKJV


Neh 9:7-8
"You are the LORD God,
Who chose Abram,
And brought him out of Ur of the Chaldeans,
And gave him the name Abraham;
8 You found his heart faithful before You,
And made a covenant with him
To give the land of the Canaanites,
The Hittites, the Amorites,
The Perizzites, the Jebusites,
And the Girgashites —
To give it to his descendants.
You have performed Your words,
For You are righteous.
NKJV



(Act 7:45 GW) After our ancestors received the tent, they brought it into this land. They did this with Joshua's help when they took possession of the land from the nations that God forced out of our ancestors' way. This tent remained here until the time of David,





Lev 25:23
23 "'The land must not be sold permanently, because the land is mine and you are but aliens and my tenants.
(NIV)


The Bible says that they were “tenants”. As tenants there were things they were to do and not to do. Look at what Jesus about the tenants (Jews) of the land (Israel).


Matt 21:33-45
33 "Listen to another parable: There was a landowner who planted a vineyard. He put a wall around it, dug a winepress in it and built a watchtower. Then he rented the vineyard to some farmers and went away on a journey.
34 When the harvest time approached, he sent his servants to the tenants to collect his fruit.
35 "The tenants seized his servants; they beat one, killed another, and stoned a third.
36 Then he sent other servants to them, more than the first time, and the tenants treated them the same way.
37 Last of all, he sent his son to them. 'They will respect my son,' he said.
38 "But when the tenants saw the son, they said to each other, 'This is the heir. Come, let's kill him and take his inheritance.'
39 So they took him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.
40 "Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?"
41 "He will bring those wretches to a wretched end," they replied, "and he will rent the vineyard to other tenants, who will give him his share of the crop at harvest time."
42 Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the Scriptures: "'The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone; the Lord has done this, and it is marvelous in our eyes'?
43 "Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit.
44 He who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces, but he on whom it falls will be crushed."
45 When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard Jesus' parables, they knew he was talking about them.
(NIV)

From verse 45 we can see that the Jews knew Jesus was speaking of them.

God told the Jews what would come to them if they failed to obey Him. Here are a few examples.


Deut 28:53
53 "You shall eat the fruit of your own body, the flesh of your sons and your daughters whom the LORD your God has given you, in the siege and desperate straits in which your enemy shall distress you.
(NKJ)

Deut 28:57-58
57 "her placenta which comes out from between her feet and her children whom she bears; for she will eat them secretly for lack of everything in the siege and desperate straits in which your enemy shall distress you at all your gates.
58 "If you do not carefully observe all the words of this law that are written in this book, that you may fear this glorious and awesome name, THE LORD YOUR GOD,
(NKJ)

Deut 28:62-64
62 "You shall be left few in number, whereas you were as the stars of heaven in multitude, because you would not obey the voice of the LORD your God.
63 "And it shall be, that just as the LORD rejoiced over you to do you good and multiply you, so the LORD will rejoice over you to destroy you and bring you to nothing; and you shall be plucked from off the land which you go to possess.
64 "Then the LORD will scatter you among all peoples, from one end of the earth to the other, and there you shall serve other gods, which neither you nor your fathers have known-- wood and stone.
(NKJ)




Some try to make this verse say there will still be a future gathering of Israel.



NKJV) Deuteronomy 30: 4 "If [any] of you are driven out to the farthest [parts] under heaven, from there the LORD your God will gather you, and from there He will bring you. 5 "Then the LORD your God will bring you to the land which your fathers possessed, and you shall possess it. He will prosper you and multiply you more than your fathers

But in light of verse 3"that the LORD your God will bring you back from captivity, and have compassion on you, and gather you again from all the nations where the LORD your God has scattered you" it can't iapply unless one belive the Jews have been in captivity for the last 2000 years.
Besides the ultimate fulfillment came in the first century.

[David Timm]

Are will still under one?
Has God promised to stay in Covenant with us, even after fulfillment?

Hi Nancy, IMO the new covenant was made specifically with physical Israel (Romans 11:27). Physical Israel included those who remained under the law until the end and the church, which was started by physical Israelite believers, which includes believing Gentiles who were grafted among them. The new covenant was made with the same houses (Israel and Judah) that the old covenant was made with (Jer 31:31). Just as the old covenant effected all humanity with its connection to the universal spiritual death, the new covenant now effects all humanity. Spiritual death has been swallowed up from all the nations for all time (Isa 25:7,8). Israel's new covenant is everlasting.

Eze 16:60 "Nevertheless, I will remember My covenant with you in the days of your youth, and I will (70AD) establish an everlasting covenant with you.

David

[Lou]

Hi Nancy, IMO the new covenant was made specifically with physical Israel (Romans 11:27). Physical Israel included those who remained under the law until the end and the church, which was started by physical Israelite believers, which includes believing Gentiles who were grafted among them. The new covenant was made with the same houses (Israel and Judah) that the old covenant was made with (Jer 31:31). Just as the old covenant effected all humanity with its connection to the universal spiritual death, the new covenant now effects all humanity. Spiritual death has been swallowed up from all the nations for all time (Isa 25:7,8). Israel's new covenant is everlasting.

Eze 16:60 "Nevertheless, I will remember My covenant with you in the days of your youth, and I will (70AD) establish an everlasting covenant with you.

David


When “law” is used it can have several meanings. The ceremonial and sacrificial aspects ended at the cross but other aspects remained until the parousia.
As for “gentiles” being grafted into the covenant I know of no OT concept that. When Paul brought Timothy into the covenant he was circumcised.