Egocentric man part 4

[Barry]

The egocentric man part 4
He no longer has authority on an historic level.
If he had authority then all would not be in all and the end never came and 2 Cor. 10:4-6 remains unfulfilled.

2Cr 10:3 For though we walk in the flesh [the old covenant world], we do not war after the flesh :
2Cr 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare [are] not carnal [from human potential], but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
2Cr 10:5 CASTING DOWN IMAGINATIONS, and every high thing that exalteth itself AGAINST THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOD, and bringing INTO CAPTIVITY every thought to THE OBEDIENCE OF CHRIST;
2Cr 10:6 And having in a readiness to REVENGE ALL DISOBEDIENCE, when YOUR OBEDIENCE IS FULFILLED.
So what then is our present day application to this point?
Not a "war" but DISARMAMENT.

The war again the flesh (egocentric idenity) is fulfilled.
It is historically done with.

In an idealistic sense we will seek to somehow duplicate a war that was already fought and won.
To do so is to try and repeat history. More importantly such an effort indicates a lack of acceptance toward biblical history. It says in effect that God did not do what he said he would do.

We are not here to destroy the egocentric man for he is historically destroyed.
He was given a place in history and his place was taken away.

“But he is still present”, one may say. I see him everywhere and even in my self.
How can he put him off and put on Christ (the express image of God)?

The historical demise of the egocentric man is not the end to the perception of his authority. We are still very much victims of that perception, even within ourselves.

He is given AUTHORITY in our perception by trying to change HIM.
Hence Paul’s prophetic or perhaps poetic “I” or “ego” dilemma:



Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? the law sin? God forbid. Nay, “I” had not known sin, but by the law: for “I” had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Rom 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin [was] dead.
Rom 7:9 For “I” was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and “I” died.
Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which [was ordained] to life, “I” found [to be] unto death.
Rom 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew [“me”].
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law [is] holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto “me”? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in “me” by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but “I” am carnal, SOLD UNDER SIN.
Rom 7:15 For that which “I” do “I” ALLOW NOT: for what “I” would, that do “I” not; but what “I” HATE, that DO “I”.
Rom 7:16 If then “I” DO THAT WHICH I WOULD NOT, “I” consent unto the law that [it is] good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more “I” that do it, but sin that dwelleth in “me”.
Rom 7:18 For “I” know that IN ME (THAT IS, IN MY FLESH,) dwelleth NO GOOD thing: for to will is present with “me”; but [how] to perform that which is good “I” find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that “I” would “I” DO NOT: but the EVIL WHICH I WOULD NOT, THAT “I” DO.
Rom 7:20 Now if “I” do that “I” would not, IT IS NO MORE “I” THAT DO IT, but sin that dwelleth IN “ME”.
Rom 7:21 “I” find then a law, that, when “I” would do good, evil is present with me.

The egocentric “I” cannot be told to change. The egocentric self will shame and hide and cover and defend. So then HE was historically destroyed. “Coming to nothing” in the end of the age.

He still exists in perception and he still controls our lives. He in essence will defend himself at all costs. Attacking HIM to destroy him gives HIM greater perceived power and so causes HIM to defend HIMSELF.

HE has however been beaten already. So do we kill HIM again?
No, this is the problem and it is our dysfunctional self and our dysfunctional society.

DISARM THE PERCEIVED EGOCENTRIC SELF BY ACCEPTING HIM:
This disarms HIM because once accepted into the whole and as a part of the whole HE finds HIS place in the whole and stops defending HIMSELF. [U]Then HE can blend in and let HIS defenses down and so begins to loose HIS own perceived purpose to exist.
[I]Acceptance is the greatest tool we have to disarm this guy. Whether the egocentric perceived self in ourselves or that in others.

This is why he has been destroyed historically and so all in now in all. God loves you and accepts you even in you and mine perceived false selves.

This is fundamentally IMO the reason why people cannot easily accept the fullness that fulfillment implies. For they see in themselves and in others the very thing that they see in the transition of the ages. Fulfillment then simply makes no sense.

But it does make sense. It makes all the sense in the world. HE is historically destroyed and punished. Now we can move past that and learn to apply the meaning of being the “one” in God that we are.

Barry

[Laren]

God loves you and accepts you even in you and mine perceived false selves.


Barry

This has been the growing area in my life. It truly has been a battle to come to the point of realizing that God doesn't frown on me every time I "sin", and he doesn't smile on me every time i do "a good deed".

As I am being freed of this thinking, I find myself free'er to give it to others too. Giving them freedom to discover, freedom for me to not have to teach, instruct etc, but freedom to let the Spirit of God work.

I also am slowly coming to the point, where I am not defining myself by my PERCEIVED SELF, but as a part of God all in all. As this is happening, I am seeing slowly the ability to quit defining others by their perceived self too.

Thanks Barry for the article, definitely resognated with me. :)

[Barry]

It is obvious that humankind did not instantly change by the year AD 71.

Yet the fulfillment in the scriptures paints an almost "cosmic" changeover of order.
Under closer examination of the scriptures we see strong indications that those changes are in the domain of "relationship".

Relationship changed on a cosmic and comprehensive level.
In essence then, the lack of instant or immediate outward change in our relationship behavior is our infancy and immaturity within the new relationship order.

At the focus of the old relationship order is:
The flesh
flesh and blood
according to the flesh
earthly things
ECT.

These things are for lack of a better terms describing ego related view of self and world.
Paul's in the flesh related to the confidence in the flesh. Behind this there is both a philosophical view and a physiologically linked perception. The perception dealt with "self" and "the world around" and "God".

The link between self and God is very strong. The Jews had their temple made with hands and the Gentiles had there fashioned things after "man's device". Herein man's egocentric view of himself is projected onto God (or gods for the gentiles).

So now we are stuck with a fulfilment some 1900 years ago and yet scores of remaining relationship problems and issues.
The tendency then is to once again take up the battle that was already fought. This is the point of my previous post above.

While people must have and should have well structured personal boundaries and frontiers in relationships (and this is often very neglected), acceptance may be the greatest tool we have for disarming the remnants of the egocentric perception of life and self.

Being powerless to sever the underlining reality of our relationship today, (for what God has declared he has declared) our primary focus should turn from waring to acceptance. This may not be our only tool but it is IMO our primary tool. For in doing so HIS very reason for self-preservation begins to be taken from HIM.

While HE has passed away in regards to any real or true standing, HIS perception of being real makes HIM very real in that we give HIM is perceived life.

What this may mean is that when we are trying to change or transform something in ourselves we may often be calling upon our perceived ego-centric self to do the change.
Then we get frustrated feel like we are failures and start a vicious circle of self-judgment and condemnation, and the beat goes on and on.

Take those failures and hold them close. Embrace them. This is IMHO an important step in disarming HIM from doing what HE wants to do.

Here is an example:
Lets say that you have a behavioural habit of seeking glorification for yourself.
Now someone tell you, "You are glory seeking. There you have your reward just like the Pharisees did."
It is your egocentric-self that is craves this glory. It is also your ego-centric self that feels judged and sinful!!
Take the glory seeking and hold it close to you. Fully accept it in love. Disarm the egocentric man.

Telling people how they should live is not going to solve the problems of the world. Understanding why we do what we do through our perceptions of life can change the world.
This is why acceptance is our greatest tool.

This however probably just touches the tip of the proverbial iceberg.

But once we begin to really think about it we could find many circumstances where our own ego-centric self and that of others could be disarmed through acceptance in love.

Barry

[Barry]

Laren, just posted right behind you LOL.
Good points!
If we can grow together, than we can grow as we should.
Barry

[Laren]

DISARM THE PERCEIVED EGOCENTRIC SELF BY ACCEPTING HIM:
This disarms HIM because once accepted into the whole and as a part of the whole HE finds HIS place in the whole and stops defending HIMSELF. Then HE can blend in and let HIS defenses down and so begins to loose HIS own perceived purpose to exist.
Acceptance is the greatest tool we have to disarm this guy. Whether the egocentric perceived self in ourselves or that in others.

This is why he has been destroyed historically and so all in now in all. God loves you and accepts you even in you and mine perceived false selves.

Barry

I've been thinking about this idea of accepting our egocentric self to disarm him. If the goal is to disarm him, whether by acceptance; arent' we still giving him power, due to the focus of wanting to disarm him. Here is an example.

In a couple of weeks I have to give a presentation to some local doctors. I hate public speaking. It truly is an irrational fear that can almost bring on a panic attack. Heart beating, unable to breathe, "feeling like the world is closing in on me, would rather die".

Now thinking about this fear of mine, my egocentric perceived self for so long has been conditioned to have to perform in order to be accepted. Now if I can't perform, I'll fail and look incompetant. So my reaction to this is extreme fear.

Now, how can I apply fufilled grace to this area. If I use mental statements like, "I am already accepted in Christ, no performance is necessary, I am a child of God, I am his beloved, etc", I still am doing this in an attempt to not have this irrational response, so in a sense I am trying to "kill" my egocentric self.

So how do I disarm him, or should that not be my goal. What should my goal be??? Should there be any goals??

This is where theory and practicality meet, and the berakdown occurs.

[kevinbeck]

Hi Barry,
Good stuff, bro.
Denying our ego only pushes it into the "shadow" where it continues to cause havoc. Embrace in order to transcend and include is the way to go. Denial is death, confession is a tree of life.

Blessings,
Kevin

[Paige]

Laren,

How about expressing gratitude to God for already giving you the ability to earn a living, speak in public, and competence. In doing so, avoid all statements made in the negative (ie., no performance is necessary).

I don't know if that ties in at all with Barry's article and the ego man, but I have learned that proper focus in gratitude to God, and meditating on the positive, yields positive results.

Paige

[Barry]

Wow Laren
great contribution to this subject!

Can we meet ourselves where we are at?
Will we allow ourselves room to grow?

Can we accept ourselves as somewhat dysfunctional?

What the ego-centric man wants to do is have a reason to survive. Justification of life in biblical terms.

Judgment said, No! You are judged in the flesh and perishes in your own corruption.
That is now fulfilled.

Since that did not erase all false perceptions of life and who we are and,
since we are all, all in all in God (otherwise fulfillment did not historically take place), then:
We must approach our false perceptions in positive ways when possible so that the negatives of our false perceptions can be undermined.

IMHO and this is JMO:
Take your need to perform and hold is close to you very tightly. False or not it is still an intrical part of your perception of life. This do in love!
Take your fear of messing up and hold it close to you very tightly. Do this in love.

Since IMHO no one can rid HIM of all of HIS influence in one single moment, (perhaps not even in a whole life time which is also OK because getting there is half the fun as arriving), [all of us to one degree or another are going to have false perceptions of self that we can work through] we are needing to find positive ways of moving forward.

In accepting your present position, where you are at in love, you begin to take away the Judgemental SELF coming from the egocentric HIM out of the scenario. The fear is in the judgement not the actual experience of messing up.

There is therefore now no condemnation for those that are in Christ Jesus.

If you have any further points or questions or pros or cons to my points, please feel free to express them.
Blessings Barry

[Barry]

I missed you so much Kevin :).
Good points bro.
Barry

[Laren]

Take your need to perform and hold is close to you very tightly. False or not it is still an intrical part of your perception of life. This do in love!
Take your fear of messing up and hold it close to you very tightly. Do this in love

How do i hold closely and tightly in love?? Do you mean, just accept it as a part of me, allow myself to be nervous, even give myself permission to be nervous????



In accepting your present position, where you are at in love, you begin to take away the Judgemental SELF coming from the egocentric HIM out of the scenario. The fear is in the judgement not the actual experience of messing up.

I think what you are saying is, that the perceived egocentric man wants to survive at all costs. To do this, it sets up standards to meet, a level of competency that must be met. The judgment of this, is the feeling of being a failure, a screw up, an inferior person.

But, by allowing myself, actually giving myself the permission to be scared, nervous, etc. then the false perceptions begin to diminish. It is hard to judge something that is "OK".

Maybe it's along the lines of I heard a peson say once, "we are not free from sin, until we realize we are free to sin".

Rewording it, we are not free from fear of failure, until we realize and give ourselves the permission to screw up.


interesting stuff.

Thanks Paige too. To be honest I've tried the thankfulness route too, but in all honesty; everything i've tried is always in an attempt to overcome my fear, so my focus is still on the irrational perception. For example, I have prayed many times, "Dear God, by the power of the Holy Spirit please take away this fear, please let me get through this." Or "thank you Lord for the victory you are gonna give me today when I do this talk, thank you for your grace, thank you that you are in control". But again, the focus is still on the problem.

[Barry]

How do i hold closely and tightly in love?? Do you mean, just accept it as a part of me, allow myself to be nervous, even give myself permission to be nervous????


Laren, I don't know what I was saying. That might be it LOL ROFL.

Also there may be reasons or experiences for these fears. These experiences that may have come up in the past may serve as triggers for the fears you have at present. (IE a rat scares you when you are young and the mere resemblance of a rat triggers the same response later in life).

In such cases denial will not IMHO and this is JMO get someone beyond such things ;)


Also you said:
"I think what you are saying is, that the perceived egocentric man wants to survive at all costs. To do this, it sets up standards to meet, a level of competency that must be met. The judgment of this, is the feeling of being a failure, a screw up, an inferior person."

It may be that this GUY shows up to try and get what you need in life.
Since oneness and wholeness is not necessarily the biggest thing around right now we may be seeking approval of others because we did not feel accepted and loved as we could have been.

If such is true then acceptance and love reduce HIS influence.

Your points are very interesting and IMHO have much merit and sure make me think a lot :).

Barry

[Amie]

To be honest I've tried the thankfulness route too, but in all honesty; everything i've tried is always in an attempt to overcome my fear, so my focus is still on the irrational perception. For example, I have prayed many times, "Dear God, by the power of the Holy Spirit please take away this fear, please let me get through this." Or "thank you Lord for the victory you are gonna give me today when I do this talk, thank you for your grace, thank you that you are in control". But again, the focus is still on the problem.

Imo, to ‘live authentically’ is to be just what you are. If you are afraid, be afraid; if you are sad, be sad; if you are happy, be happy, etc. I totally get what you’re saying when you suggested along the lines (correct me if I misunderstood) that reassurance can sometimes mean self-denial. As a matter of fact, “don’t be afraid” is invalidation.

Like Kevin put it, “Embrace in order to transcend and include is the way to go.” Transcendence is not invalidation. If you’re sad for example, and cry until you cannot cry another tear, and feel sad until you are no longer feeling sad, then you have not denied that emotion or that part of yourself, you’ve lived it, and transcended it.

When you make a presentation and are afraid or nervous, what does it mean if you just be, nervous? The last time I did a presentation, I just let go and accepted that I would tremble (I tremble when I feel really strong emotion) and might stumble over some words. I ended up having fun with it oddly enough.

Amie

[lynn]

But, by allowing myself, actually giving myself the permission to be scared, nervous, etc. then the false perceptions begin to diminish. It is hard to judge something that is "OK".That's beautiful, Laren. :) A recovering perfectionist, I'm learning this too. I can just be honest with how I feel, whether positively or negatively. #!?*&%<@ I can realize that no matter what, God's opinion of me isn't going to change. This is huge. :9_cool:

It's great to be able to grow into these things along with the rest of you. I can't imagine ever going back to futurism, with its uncertainty of God's approval and it's dread of God's judgment. The egocentric man is dead. :clap2:

[Barry]

Hi Lynn.
Growing with others is always more interesting and often more productive.

It can become part of the relationship.
Which makes sense since we are all in this together.
Just a thought, Barry

[Barry]

Hi Barry,
Good stuff, bro.
Denying our ego only pushes it into the "shadow" where it continues to cause havoc. Embrace in order to transcend and include is the way to go. Denial is death, confession is a tree of life.

Blessings,
Kevin

The tree of life is honesty without shame.
Any thoughts are welcome.
Blessings to you Barry

[Barry]

The "law" was very concerned with the damage done to others.

Grace and truth (in light of fulfillment) is very concerned with the damage done to self when damage is done to others.

Just a thought.
Barry