dating revelation

[sarahb]

hey guys,

I am over at tentmaker, and under the heading..the book of revelation, and the thread 'secret rapture', this guy, herald, posted this after I responded that the kingdom of God is within, and it is love, joy and righteousness, and the lake of fire is gehenna. He wrote this stuff......


"The Book of Revelation was written after 70 A.D.

Jesus defeated Satan. His only power since the cross, is his power to deceive men. Just as he did in the garden, he questions God's word: "Hath God said?"

It is a foolish thing to trust in our own understanding:

"Let not thine heart decline to her ways, go not astray in her paths. For she hath cast down many wounded: yea, many strong men have been slain by her. Her house is the way to hell, going down to the chambers of death." Prov 7:25-27.

Universalism is not Scriptural. The Scriptures, teach about the lake of fire, that, will destroy those who oppose the kingdom of God. It is dangerous to pick and choose which parts of the Scripture, that, we want to believe.


And...


Revelation was written after 70 A.D., near the end of Domitian's reign (A.D. 81-96). The argument, that, it was written earlier, conflicts with the early church. In the 2nd century, Clement of Alexandria, Origen, Victorinus (who wrote one of the earliest commentaries on Revelation), Eusibius, and Jerome confirm the Domitian date.

Also, the spiritual decline of the churches (chapts. 2,3) argue for a later date. These churches were strong and spiritually healthy in the mid-60s, when Paul last ministered in Asia Minor. The time gap also explains the rise of the heretics - the Nicolatians (2:6,15), who aren't mentioned in Paul's letters. Also, dating Revelation, during Nero's reign, doesn't allow time for John's ministry in Asia Minor to reach the point to which the authorities would want to exile him.

There is a literal Heaven, a literal hell and a literal judgment of all men. That is what the Scriptures teach."

I wanted to understand what he was talking about in the last three paragraphs. I need help not only to speak to him, but for my own understanding. If anyone wants to join in, welcome. :D

Love, Sarah

[Paige]

Sarah,

I'm heading out the door to work this afternoon. I'll try to dig some things up for you later on this evening when I get some time. Its always good to help out when we can :)

Paige

[ozark]

Sarah,

I did an article on the dating of Revelation a few years ago. You might find it useful.

http://www.newjerusalemcommunity.net/?c=44&a=1056

[Amie]

The Syriac Peshitto (Murdock's version) opens Revelation, "The Revelation, which was made by God to John the Evangelist, in the island of Patmos, to which he was banished by Nero the Emperor."

Anyone know anything about that? Is this an assertion?

Great question Sarah, I wish that I had something to contribute, however I'm enjoying gaining from the thread :).

Amie

[sarahb]

Ozark, thank you for the article. It has helped. When I get more time, I will look closer at Herald's response and try to combat it (nicely), even if he is no longer there, it is good for me. :rolleyes:

Amie, that is very interesting. I would like to learn more about that.

[Laren]

I saw this post on tentmaker, thot it was interesting:

"Daniel a book of warning ...

"But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end...."

And John was told, "Do not seal the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is at hand!"

At hand as in near in time, or will be happening very soon!

Is it not more than interesting, that which Paul said, "I know a man in Christ, who, fourteen years ago, whether in the body, I know not, or out of the body, I know not, God, knoweth, such a one as this, caught away, as far as the third heaven; And I know such a man as this, whether in the body or apart from the body, know not – but God, knoweth – How that he was caught away into paradise, and heard unspeakable things, which it is not allowable for a man to utter:" (2 Corinthians 12:2-4)

So, who was this certain man? Want to guess ... was it Paul?

Or was it John who was caught up into the third heaven, and saw the temple therein, the ark of the testimony of Christ coming down to a new earth; a new people. A man "in Christ" wrote the Revelation of Christ fourteen years before, as Paul stated, thus, it was written before 70 A.D. Not afterward, as Paul's first letter to the Corinthians was written, approximately in 56 A.D., the second, 57 A.D. (?)

So, the Revelation (an uncovering or unveiling) was given to John by the Spirit of Christ, approximately fourteen years (plus, or minus) after the crucifixion, fourteen to Paul's (second) letter to the Corinthians, and on to the Abomination of Desolation. If, Christ was crucified in 29-30 A.D., then the destruction would have been within three generations (or, to the third and fourth).

And, who is it that was worthy to open the book, which is not allowable for a man to utter, and was not to be sealed because the time – is at hand?

Only "The Lamb is/was worthy" to open the seal of Judgment which took place.

"Come out of her my people ... lest you share in her plagues, for her sins are heaped high as heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities. Render to her as she herself has rendered, and repay her double for her deeds ... and she will be burned with fire. Alas, alas, you Great City, in one hour your judgment has come." (Revelation 18:4, 6, 8, 10)

Revelation the book of comfort ...

For me, or mine, I cannot use the futurist perspective in justifying the prophets (profits) of end-time scenarios that contradict the Scriptures, and which are based on the imagination of men. As the Spirit of the comforter resides within!

"for the letter brings death, but the Spirit gives life."

This is just a personal quote:

"Know one knows the hour, if they don't look at the clock!"

peacemaker"

[Me Again]

I would recommend a very scriptural article by a preterist named Sam Dawson. He's no universalist, but he rejects on biblical grounds the concept of a burning, never-ending place of torment. He wrote this article which answers your friend's claim that the bible teaches a literal hell.

http://www.gospelthemes.com/hell.htm