Gospel of Inclusion

[Laren]

Carlton Pearson has a series on gospel of inclusion here. I've only listened to the first part, but very good.

I like the part about "religion creates self hate".

anyone interested, here is the link

http://www.youtube.com/ursaved

laren

[enarchay]

Carlton Pearson has a series on gospel of inclusion here. I've only listened to the first part, but very good.

I like the part about "religion creates self hate".

anyone interested, here is the link

http://www.youtube.com/ursaved

laren

I honestly do not like that guy at all.

I'm not a Universalist, but I have respect for some Universalists, particular some of the guys at tentmaker, and this guy Carlton is a disgrace to those Universalists.

It seems to me that he has hopped from one side of the fence of Biblical ignorance to the other side of the fence of Biblical ignorance. His theological background attests to his ignorance. I mean, he studied under Oral Roberts for goodness sake.

He talks about how we create our own “Hell," in complete ignorance of the fact that "Hell" is a modern day concept. How ridiculous! Look at the Pharisees, for example, they were living in contrast to Jesus’ message, and yet, they faired quite well. In fact, most of them were rich. They did not create their own “Hell.” Rather, by remaining in disobedience, God allowed them to face judgment under Roman hands.

How many sinful people can you think of today who live wonderful lifestyles when many Christians face persecution and poverty?

Also, I have not heard this guy base any of his teachings on Scripture.

His so-called Gospel of inclusion is encouraging people to remain in their own sinful life styles since nothing matters and all will be "saved." In an interview with him, it explained how he was accepted into a Church filled with a bunch of homosexuals to preach his false gospel. I’m sure they were happy to hear nothing matters and we can do what we want without consequences.

His message is heading down hill.

[Paige]

He talks about how we create our own “Hell," in complete ignorance of the fact that "Hell" is a modern day concept. How ridiculous! Look at the Pharisees, for example, they were living in contrast to Jesus’ message, and yet, they faired quite well. In fact, most of them were rich. They did not create their own “Hell.” Rather, by remaining in disobedience, God allowed them to face judgment under Roman hands.

How many sinful people can you think of today who live wonderful lifestyles when many Christians face persecution and poverty?


Enarchay,

Do you claim to be able to judge what is going on inside a person based on what can be seen from the outside? I've met many a rich and yet still miserable person in my lifetime.

Do you buy into the notion that wealth creates happiness, peace and joy?

Paige

[Laren]

If you believe in fulfilled grace, and God is at peace with man, and planted within each human is God's Spirit, LOVE, and that man's attempt to please God through behavior continues to limit the release of LOVE, then his message is good. If acceptance, rather than performance is what releases God's spirit then again I think his message is good. If you believe God is all in all now, and all mankind is in this together, all one in HIM, then his message is good. If you believe man is already in God's image, and is already accepted 100 percent, and by accepting our broken fragments as just that, broken fragments from trying to put ourselves under a set of standards, then his message is liberating.

If you believe that we still need to "perform" in order to please God, to be counted worthy, and that there is future ages yet to be fulfilled, and God is still subduing his enemies, then yes I agree it is a message of "too soon". Are we in an age of acceptance and LOVE, or one of seperation?

Are we still trying to be counted worthy, or are we worthy? Are we to offer ourselves as living sacrifice, pleasing to God, or are we already pleasing to God? Is God still a God of wrath? Or has his wrath served it's purpose?

So, to me it depends upon what frame of reference you come from.

And yes, life on earth can feel like Hell, if we continue to strive to perform, rather than bathe in God's unconditional acceptance.

[Amie]

I think that people can study under other people who are mistaken and find just the right piece of the puzzle to put it together themselves, ending up on an entirely different page. As well, students are able to surpass their teachers. Always important, "Our past is not our destiny".


And yes, life on earth can feel like Hell, if we continue to strive to perform, rather than bathe in God's unconditional acceptance.

Amen!

As you probably know, I see salvation contextually broken down like:

#1 Salvation from wrath -- Applied to Israel only.
#2 Salvation from death, or "redemption" -- Applied to all of humanity and has been accomplished
#3 Personal Salvation -- Salvation from the hell as Pearson describes. It is accepting and knowing unconditional love.

I already have some notes written down about how to go to heaven (lol), and be saved from hell. I'm gonna do a presentation on it. I think that Pearson is touching on it heavily in addressing becoming at peace with ourselves and others.

I think that 1, 2, and 3 above are all salvation from hell. "Hell" in #1 was a mental suffering and a physical suffering at the fall. Hell in #2 was the power of the grave, and hell in #3 is personal.

I have watched parts I and II so far and LOVE it. He actually used some words that I've heard Kevin Beck use in a presentation, "We believe that we need Jesus to save us from God".. shew! Heavy stuff!

We were made free, it is what the Truth did :) (Pearson said, "Freedom is not for cowards", ha! Cool.). However, since when does doing things like drinking lysol or murdering come without consequence? I wonder too, which is more just.. Eternal torment of everyone not adhering to said doctrine, the annihilation of everyone not adhering to said doctrine, or the turning of the heart to God, probable sorrow, and then comfort? Which would you pray for your enemy?

I'm glad that you shared this Laren, I'm going to keep this site.

Amie

[Amie]

"I don't have to accept the sun to get a sunburn." -- Pearson

HAHAHAHA!!!

[Barry]

I honestly do not like that guy at all.

I'm not a Universalist, but I have respect for some Universalists, particular some of the guys at tentmaker, and this guy Carlton is a disgrace to those Universalists.

It seems to me that he has hopped from one side of the fence of Biblical ignorance to the other side of the fence of Biblical ignorance. His theological background attests to his ignorance. I mean, he studied under Oral Roberts for goodness sake.

He talks about how we create our own “Hell," in complete ignorance of the fact that "Hell" is a modern day concept. How ridiculous! Look at the Pharisees, for example, they were living in contrast to Jesus’ message, and yet, they faired quite well. In fact, most of them were rich. They did not create their own “Hell.” Rather, by remaining in disobedience, God allowed them to face judgment under Roman hands.

How many sinful people can you think of today who live wonderful lifestyles when many Christians face persecution and poverty?

Also, I have not heard this guy base any of his teachings on Scripture.

His so-called Gospel of inclusion is encouraging people to remain in their own sinful life styles since nothing matters and all will be "saved." In an interview with him, it explained how he was accepted into a Church filled with a bunch of homosexuals to preach his false gospel. I’m sure they were happy to hear nothing matters and we can do what we want without consequences.

His message is heading down hill.

Zach,
I think I understand your feelings and thoughts along these lines.

I myself have not studied his material. So I cannot comment on his material.

Perhaps in a sense we do make our own hell.
While that is not a studious approach it is a correct observation of sorts.

The Jews of the first century did indeed make their own hell in their own way. While of course it goes much beyond this in application and context. However, we are very capable of creating similar circumstances wherein we create our own problems through sectarianism, ethnicity and pride. "If you had know the way of peace..."


Concerning your last paragraph and points on sin:
Salvation in the first century context has several different inferences.

None of which IMHO refers to eternal security.
Salvation is used for the delivery from the wrath centered around the destruction of Jerusalem.
It is used for deliverance from the judgment of the law.
It is used for deliverance from the catastrophic loss of self and corporate identity in the ending of that age. The old covenant creature did not enter into the new age. Even those that lived through.

While conduct and behavior are important factors within themselves though perhaps a little differently than we typically conceive, conduct did not affect the efficacy of the cross comprehensively. Dieing "once for all".

In other words, in the long run, as pertains to continued human development having been created in "God's image", behavior is better transformed by realizing what we already are through redemption than it is through attempting to change behavior to access redemption.

This is the significance too the end of the age and God's new age.

Sure hope this make some sense LOL!

JMO :)
Blessings to you,
Barry

[Amie]

Barry,

The link that Laren gave is to short video clips (about 10 minutes per). If you have time to listen I think you'll enjoy it. (Though I could be wrong, lol)

Amie

[Barry]

Barry,

The link that Laren gave is to short video clips (about 10 minutes per). If you have time to listen I think you'll enjoy it. (Though I could be wrong, lol)

Amie

I'm trying to watch Stargate Amie!!!
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Thanks for the info; tonight I'll get to it. Should be very interesting.
Barry

[Amie]

Rofl!!!

[Laren]

I just listened to the 4 parts. What a blessing. I like the part about we are grieving. We all grieve that we are not OK. Grieving over self. Constant voices telling us we're not ok. We are afraid of being OK. We are convinced we are inferior. Yet, deep inside of us, is a memory of being loved, fully accepted. Unconditionally accepted. Our problem is we have amnesia.

Reconciliation, "connecting to who we are".

Or as you say Amie, personal salvation.


Anyway, I thot his series was good.

[Tam]

Hi Laren, It's been a while since I've posted so don't think we've met. Anyway, I think I'm with you on this. I haven't seen these video's (yet). But it sounds interesting and from what you are saying I already think I connect with the insights from them. For me, believing that most ppl or ANYONE for that matter would spend eternity in a place of torment WAS hell for me. It was my own personal hell. Most of which was thrust upon me from childhood, and the rest I never knew I had any other choice from believing or I would end up in eternal torment myself, even though I came from an eternal security doctrine....for some reason it gives no reassurance and leaves one just as insecure as any other doctrine. So in my mind, yes...we can live a hell right here and right now. Tami

[Laren]

Hi Laren, It's been a while since I've posted so don't think we've met. Anyway, I think I'm with you on this. I haven't seen these video's (yet). But it sounds interesting and from what you are saying I already think I connect with the insights from them. For me, believing that most ppl or ANYONE for that matter would spend eternity in a place of torment WAS hell for me. It was my own personal hell. Most of which was thrust upon me from childhood, and the rest I never knew I had any other choice from believing or I would end up in eternal torment myself, even though I came from an eternal security doctrine....for some reason it gives no reassurance and leaves one just as insecure as any other doctrine. So in my mind, yes...we can live a hell right here and right now. Tami

Hi Tami, nice to meet you. I am glad I found this forum, and the process I am going through to find who I already am.

I too have lived imo, a life of hell on this earth. My hell has been fear and shame. Fear of failing others, especially my parents and God, and shame because of failure.

I do believe there is resurrection from this perceived hell, and it comes through acceptance, rather than "buckle up, pray harder, try harder, trust more, get in a cell group, go to church more, read your bible more" etc.

I am thankful learning about fulfilled grace, and the role the firstfruits went through during the transition period. Prior to coming here, i had spent some time reading several good books on grace, "Grace walk, and What's so amazing about Grace", as well as listening to Mike (forgot his name now, but he has been mentioned on this forum before).

I knew there was truths in what they were saying, but yet it didn't seem to match the new testament "instructions", of work out your salvation with fear and trembling, live a life that pleases the Lord, offer myself a living sacrifice, stay faithful to the end, be counted worthy etc"

Now, having a better understanding of fulfilled eschatology, opens my eyes to what really is so amazing about grace.

I'm glad to hear that you have also been rescued from your hell of believing people were gonna be fried forever.

Hope you can start posting more frequently

Laren

[Tam]

Laren,

Wow, so much of your journey I connect with. Are you referring to Philip Yancey's book "What's So Amazing About Grace?" If so, I also read that before I even knew I was on a journey out of of fundamentalism. Anyone who would dare come close to be considered a heretic in the area of grace in the fundamentalist world, I would soak up their thoughts like a sponge. I just kept wanting to push the envelope on grace. Only later to find out that grace isn't an envelope that can be pushed. It is what it is. Even what I read from the "freer" fundamentalists now seems to fall short of pure grace. How thankful I am though for those books, those "steps"...cuz I never would've entertained anything at the time that wasn't from what I considered a fundamentalist christian. Even while researching grace, I was in fear of wandering too far from the camp I was so familiar with. And yes, fear and shame...isn't that what religion is all about? Thanks so much for sharing this with me.

I got to see a few of those Pearson video's. I love them! I can connect with him because I also see the bible as metaphoric. Perfect in the sense that it leads us to the Messiah which is the running theme througout. Jmho. I haven't listened to a "sermon" in YEARS. Can you believe it. I'm so phobic about "group think" that I just don't listen to them. And here, you, a person I don't even know mentions them and here I am listening to them and enjoying them very much. Very non-threatening. There's no "believe this" or your doomed stuff going on with this man. Very refreshing. Thanks so much, Laren.

Tami

[Laren]

Laren,

Wow, so much of your journey I connect with. Are you referring to Philip Yancey's book "What's So Amazing About Grace?"
Tami

Yeah Tami, a few authors really got me going, Philip Yancey, Brennan Manning, Max Lucado (In the grip of grace), and Mike Williams (online), also a book called "Breaking the Bondage of Legalism, by Neil Anderson, and then Steve McVey (Grace Walk).

It all ties together so much better now.

Talk later

Laren