City Church

[Amie]

This must be a spoof because the second link seems to be:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=-kvh4osKVlU

Hmm, interesting idea on repackaging church aye? As a single's place? Somewhere to go and pick up hot women? LOL!

I wonder what would be so bad about it. Don't many Christians profess the belief in being "equally yolked" (imo using that verse way out of context..)

Second link:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=K0CyVIP1GlE

If you're wondering what he is doing, here is heads up on the original video that the populus entitles "Leave Britney Alone":

http://youtube.com/watch?v=hZAr9E8i3ng

Here is his thoughts on it:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=hCSh84iGTEs

He says something at the end about people not caring about the feelings of other people. I also read in a blog that I frequent, a lot of people who were offended by this church's satire of the video.

The guy in the church video satiring Crocker ("Leave Britney Alone!") was funny. I laughed out loud. I found myself giggling watching Crocker's response to Fox News also.

The only control that I may have been able to take over the sensation of funnyness that I was experiencing, will have been shaming myself for laughing since this IS someone's feelings.

I am reminded of my daughter (I'm trying to put myself in the church's shoes), who is beautifully and wonderfully dramatic. I think of statements that she has made similar to, "Fine! I won't ever eat candy again!" in response to something like my telling her no candy before supper. She is serious and that is a dead on threat in her mind. If she doesn't get her way doggonit, she will do it! ;)

If I don't suppress the giggle that inspires in me, she is hurt, as I imagine that Crocker fella is. When she walks off though, I tend to let the laugh out.

Am I insensitive? Isn't this normal? Can I feel like laughing and be sensitive? How is my response different than the church's? I might replay the event later to my husband, if it was funny enough..

What do you think? Is "City Church" closer to being real than what is commonly out there?

Amie

[Paige]

My first thought is that City Church is tapping into a market that is already there to be tapped. Its not going to appeal to everybody, but it will appeal to some. Other churches have their own market and their own style. I have to say that it isn't my cup of tea, so I wouldn't be showing up. If I were to walk in there, I'd be pretty self-conscious that people were checking me out, and then comparing me to the "hot" (a word I really dislike) Pastor's wife.

Paige

[Amie]

Paige,

Church is really not my "cup" at all -- like yourself. Some of the women on the other blog who shared this info, were very offended seeing the first link as the "objectification" of women. It strikes me as satirical, but even then, is this objectifying women?

I think that "hot" is hilarious! And ridiculous! What happened to "cool"? haha! I like to mess with Mike (my teen son for those reading) and use words like that, or "hip". He says, "MOM... NEVER. Use that word again" all serious like, lol! (Messing with me back and my oh so cool hipness -- lol!)

It seems like the pre-existing market that they're tapping into is outside of Christian culture. Like they're making an effort to reach into the world outside of themselves..

Amie

[Tam]

This video has been taken off youtube. Does anyone know another place it can be viewed? Tami

[Amie]

This video has been taken off youtube. Does anyone know another place it can be viewed? Tami

Bummer. I can't find then anywhere, but the church's site address is: http://www.ourcitychurch.com/

Amie

[Jotham]

(This is a post script written ~24hrs after posting the below thoughts. Sometimes i say stuff and end up putting my foot-in-mouth. We've all done it. Well i stand by what is posted originally, but i know some of it might ruffle some feathers. . . as the saying goes "If you knew me you'd luv me", even w/my crazy thoughts. Blessings.)

Well i missed the original top-linked videos as they were down by the time i read this thread so i can't comment on what the city church might have had up there or what their marketing program is up to. But it looks like an offshoot or stepchild of what Bill Hybels began at : Willow Creek church which is also based in Chicago (the original/admin offices and church).
See : http://www.willowcreek.org/imagine
I can tell you first hand that this is totally marketing driven with media events on Sunday services that rival Hollywood. In fact when they opened their satellite church in Portland Oregon i visited with a friend as he was interested in what they were doing. They had a fellow that was a director from hollywood that had decided to use his directing talents "for the Lord". I couldn't even sit through the service without being sick inside. He had put on several skits with the most gorgeous people in Portland, many of them professional actors. They acted out various skits you might see in any home across America, with the basic gist that we need God to work out our troubles. YadaYada. No disrespect for the MAN upstairs but this was just to much and as stated, sickening to my spirit and body.

The Portland satellite went from ZERO to several thousand in attendance each Sunday in under a year! They were renting out the largest auditoriums they could find for services. Just showed me how desperate people are to be entertained, because trust me, it was pure entertainment and all about captivating an audience. Their music was a large rock-band/orchestra. amazing talent. But still, focused on bottle feeding and keeping people depended on a pastor and sipping Sunday morning meal through straws. There was NO meat in the message at all. I visited a year later. Nothing had changed. Still catering and talking to everyone as if they were in diapers. My friend never seemed to grww past warming a pew. It was sad.

---end of ramble. And yes i get a bit flustered just rethinking the experience and all the people that may never grow beyond the same state as my friend above.

, ) Thom

[Amie]

Thom,

I was digging around in that link and heard a woman speaking. She said that she took part in meetings where they would gather and decide "..what we can do on Sunday mornings to serve God, and to bring him, you know, a better offering with what we do." Isn't that an interesting? Offerings to God are still necessary in that thinking and intent is put behind making that offering bigger and better, "more effective", so that God might be pleased. How hard for that leadership, and for those who believe that they need to meet or beat what they're offering over there.

I think that stage shows are another way of telling the same story and am all for it. Video games are even a good avenue.

I think that leaving dependency behind (codependency) leaves us with learning how to live together as diverse as we are.

If I were to disagree with your statement (and I can't honestly since I've never been there), then how would we maintain our relationship as friends? Are there things that we can agree on and from there how will we choose to respond? There are a number of ways that we could move forward while preserving our relationship -- allowing each of us to have our own opinions without "ruffled feathers".

Of course, communicating our feelings would solve any issue that we might have concerning our own personal boundaries as well.

I just love the idea of exploring the preservation of individuality as well as relationship. Hmm, is that another thread? lol!

"City Church's" first ad was a video with a disco like setting (music, lights, costume). The guy in the video pitched the church as a place to meet hot chicks and even pointed out the hotty of a wife that the pastor has -- and they flashed her fully body picture. If it wasn't a spoof, man was it strange!

The next ad was of another guy mocking the "Leave Britney Alone" viral vid in the middle of Chicago. It was funny, but that could be the sickness in me, lol!

I like the idea of church becoming more "relevant", yet then, is it really church anymore? If it is not longer traditional, is it church at all? What makes church church anyway? What if there weren't any individual leader of a group? How would it be lead? Would it be? How would it be organized? Gosh. So many questions rolling around in this skull o' mine.

I often hearken back to Doug's thread at NJM decades ago (lol) entitled "Fire your Pastor?" The title alone stuck in my mind. Not everyone is interested in bible study. Not everyone is gifted in teaching, or comfortable with leading, etc. Folks must be getting something from these leaders, and even in a healthy setting, leaders emerge. So what is it that is really wrong there?

My first thought, in answer to my own question (LOL!), is that they are understood as the voice of God. The leaders themselves are then held captive by their own conscience and believed standing before God, and the congregations become co-dependent.

Just some thoughts..

Amie

[Amie]

Along these lines, I heard on the radio recently that a local church has restored a Merry Go 'Round and placed in in their building. The disc jockey said that now they are able to ask, "Yeah, but does your church have a ride in it?" lol!

Amie

[Paige]

My first thought, in answer to my own question (LOL!), is that they are understood as the voice of God. The leaders themselves are then held captive by their own conscience and believed standing before God, and the congregations become co-dependent.

I agree. My own ideas over the dilemma created by us:

1. Come together for singing, prayer, etc. I have always enjoyed that part of an organized service.

2. Nix the "one man behind the podium" thing. I like the idea of having revolving volunteers tasked with a reading from the Psalms or some other passage of scripture. I wouldn't even rule out reading prayers by people like St. Francis of Assisi. Anything inspirational and edifying to build up "the body" gathered there.

3. Leadership skills are necessary to run and organize ministries, so having several ministries that serve to reach out into the community is a great way to involve those naturally gifted with organizational and leadership skills. Those ministries can function throughout the week, and even outside the doors of any building. Also, mixed-use buildings are a great way to bless the surrounding community. Having a staff to facilitate that kind of ministry could be very helpful. (I'm thinking of things like exercise classes in gyms for seniors, children, etc., and a soup kitchen open for feeding the hungry in the community.)

4. Making it understood from the get-go that we as individuals are responsible to "feed ourselves". Meaning, if we want regular bible study, we can organize that ourselves into groups or solely as individuals. It is not someone else's responsibility to fill that need, because God has equipped us all with the ability to hear Him, understand Him, and know Him. The relationships we build with those around us can also serve to help us along the way, if we feel confused about something, or are seeking some more direction.

Just some ideas I've been tossing around for a while. Its kind of a vision of something that I think I could actually be involved in if I could ever find it, OR, if God ever put me in a position to "make it happen."

Paige

[Jotham]

Amie, Paige, i enjoyed your posts above : )

Amie: I've always attempted to be a peacemaker. Even physically, i've never been in a fight but once in 4th grade...it was a draw, and the relationship was healed and became a "best friend" sort of thingy after that. Emotionally/Spiritually; i strive to always send out grace and encouragement, though at times i know my tad-bit-radical view (which i believe is compatible w/most here?) gets in the way at times. My Post script in post 6 above was my way of wanting to make sure my family here knew that even though i can be a bull-in-a-china-shop at times i love you all and enjoy our friendship/netquaintance and would never intentionaly do anything to mar the fellowship. Sort of an apology in advance for a Remove-Foot-From-Mouth card if you will. grin.

Paige: Your thoughts are so similar to mine on the church thingy from what you shared above. I have a library full of books on church organization, gatherings, worship, suggested study/teaching programs, etc, that are all very radical ideas compared to what is typically seen in today's O.C. (Organized Church). Also of note is that such organizational links as house-church.org (http://www.house-church.org/) should yield some nice personal studies and resources. I spent a handful of years in church-worship-administration, my part being co-head of a large worship team and player of electronic-wind-instruments (small video clip of what they are by the guy who does the sound tracks for the CSI serries!) (http://www.akaipro.com/videos/SteveTavaglione.mov). It was all a blessing until i felt it was waaay to Hollywood and cosmetic in substance. At which point i laid all my instruments down and haven't picked them up for public-viewing in over a decade.

At times the guilt of not attending an O.C. still grabs be...for a nanosecond...then i'm back to living life large with the Lord of My Heart and all is well. YES i would like more real-time fellowship with local believers, and there may be something in the works as God has watered some seeds over the years that are finally! (15 years in the making) breaking through crust and showing spring shoots. May it be so Lord!

Blessings,
Thom

[Amie]

OMGGM ("Oh My Good Googly Moogly" - LOL!) Thom!

There is no forgiveness here. You must work to earn grace! Well, I hope that you're proud of yourself.

It's way cool that I can type that and you know me well enough to read the intended humor in it --- or did you? :D

You were crystal clear in what you said previously and it's safe to assume (with me at least) that your intentions are pre-understood as kind ones. If an accident happens, I won't use you for burgers (.."bull").

Can the "cosmetic" sort of presentation that you are sensing from them safely understood as meaning "shallow" or "phony"?


Paige,

Your concepts are interesting.

A person that I met recently pointed out that some belief cohesion would be necessary to preserve the identity of an organization. Do you agree? Do you see that as exclusivity? (I'm reserving my answers this time since I'm still exploring this anyhow.)

No one need to be an expert to use a library or to be in touch with their heart. I'm pretty sure (especially judging by your ideas) that we agree on that. Would this be a place where people could come to understanding in their own degrees and at their own pace? That would mean quite a diverse group. Or, would you go with what the person that I met said? Or something else entirely?

Amie

[Paige]

A person that I met recently pointed out that some belief cohesion would be necessary to preserve the identity of an organization. Do you agree? Do you see that as exclusivity? (I'm reserving my answers this time since I'm still exploring this anyhow.)

No one need to be an expert to use a library or to be in touch with their heart. I'm pretty sure (especially judging by your ideas) that we agree on that. Would this be a place where people could come to understanding in their own degrees and at their own pace? That would mean quite a diverse group. Or, would you go with what the person that I met said? Or something else entirely?

Thinking :coffee: :coffee: :coffee:

Firstly, I think some belief cohesion would be necessary. I'm not sure if it would have to be strict, but I think some amount of it is probably important. Why? I think for the benefit of those contributing, they kind of want to know if they can "put their hand to the plow" with this particular bunch of people. For that reason, having a mission statement that lays out some basics of the intent of the organization would be helpful.

I am thinking about some other reasons too, but am heading out the door for a walk, so I'll get back to it later.

Paige

[Paige]

Another reason I thought about was that when you organize something like what I'm envisioning, I think the idea is to have whole families involved. People with children would like to be assured that they're children are in a safe environment. There is probably no way a guarantee could be made that a child would never encounter something unsafe there, but having some core beliefs (however loose they may be) can aid parents in informing them and helping them decide if this is a safe place for them and their children.

Paige

[Jotham]

...There is no forgiveness here...My head hangs in sorrow. My inner man bleeds. Guess i'll have to await the second coming and the age to come.

, (
Thom

[Amie]

I think for the benefit of those contributing, they kind of want to know if they can "put their hand to the plow" with this particular bunch of people. For that reason, having a mission statement that lays out some basics of the intent of the organization would be helpful.

Interesting considering a place where a group of people are working to acheive a similar to same goal. If that goal is freedom though, it almost becomes paradoxical -- at least it is for me right now, lol!


My head hangs in sorrow. My inner man bleeds. Guess i'll have to await the second coming and the age to come.

You just hold your breath my high energy brother.. just keeeep holding.. (LOL!)

Amie