Talk-grace.com http://www.talk-grace.com/ A Forum for discussing the grace of God en Thu, 09 Sep 2010 12:45:56 GMT vBulletin 60 http://talk-grace.com/images/misc/rss.png Talk-grace.com http://www.talk-grace.com/ Floating http://www.talk-grace.com/showthread.php?2096-Floating&goto=newpost Thu, 09 Sep 2010 06:11:46 GMT I just have a lot of different stuff flying around inside me lately. I read an article by Brian Jones who is a pastor where he said the way to know... I just have a lot of different stuff flying around inside me lately. I read an article by Brian Jones who is a pastor where he said the way to know your truly a Christian is your victorious attitude toward death. Well as so many of you know, I have struggled with fear of death since around age 8 and so does that mean i am not a true Christian??? Why has that fear persisted no matter all my desire and attempts to be rid of it??? Do those who say they have total peace in accepting death really mean it or what??? I know have posted on this in certain ways before but reading that post just exacerbated a wound in me. Hoe have i lived life constantly having a fear of death??? Why live when death will happen and possibly in a painful way?? Im just speaking my pain out loud here. How exactly does the perfect love that casts away all fear happen??? What in heck to do I have to do to get over this??? Of course the tape in my head keeps poking me with the stick,metaphorically speaking,saying I should have gotten over this fear a longggggggg time ago and since i havent obviously I really dont trust God and Jesus so I just better find a way to stay alive somehow cuz death is really gonna suck but too bad so sad. Sorry for the tone of this and thank you all who read. I just dont understand myself how i can seek to place everything in Gods Hands and at sametime feel like He wont be there or doesnt want me with Him. Possibly this is a reaction to having no father since 8, but many people have had no father or mother even before they were born and dont struggle with this fear.

i am not sure just exactly my whole point here. i guess to share because i feel this is a safe place to do so and also to hear back from anyone about if you experience this at all or how you experience the opposite. Thanks for reading everyone.

Peace- Robert ]]> Personal Growth and Spirituality Robert http://www.talk-grace.com/showthread.php?2096-Floating Overwhelmed by LOVE http://www.talk-grace.com/showthread.php?2095-Overwhelmed-by-LOVE&goto=newpost Thu, 09 Sep 2010 02:45:01 GMT Today, my dad; for the first time ever that I can remember; approached me about my beliefs in universal reconciliation; in regards to Jude 1. I... Today, my dad; for the first time ever that I can remember; approached me about my beliefs in universal reconciliation; in regards to Jude 1. I contemplated how to address his questions; and decided the fulfilled paradigm made most sense (as I could also have answered him with several other paradigms, all focused on God's unconditonal love for us).

But anyway; as I wrote him by email; I found myself being consumed with tears of joy; Tears of thankfulness; Tears of LOVE. I am at times so overwhelmed by KNOWING God loves me, and Love never fails. My heart wants others to realize this sooooo badly; especially those who I see living under what I would call "self absorption/pride". ie: God will reward me because i believe in Christ; and burn those who don't in hell forever".

Anyone else here, ever experience these tears?? ]]> Personal Growth and Spirituality Laren http://www.talk-grace.com/showthread.php?2095-Overwhelmed-by-LOVE January in Baytown http://www.talk-grace.com/showthread.php?2094-January-in-Baytown&goto=newpost Sat, 04 Sep 2010 15:15:59 GMT I know this is really early, but I'm hoping that giving notice will get an awesome talk-grace showing! I am going to be in Baytown in January again and I hope to see y'all there!

I didn't feel that there was time enough to visit with Ed while we were there (Lauri and I typically are within arms' reach of one another during these things, lol!). I would like to put in the suggestion box that we actually plan a talk-grace get together within that time frame. Like maybe we all meet somewhere and hang out.

What do y'all think? Anyone planning to go?

I'm excited about my presentation. It's going to be hands on and everyone attending will have homework (not mandatory of course, just suggested). That's all I'm sayin' 'bout that right now though!

Amie ]]> Announcements Amie http://www.talk-grace.com/showthread.php?2094-January-in-Baytown Gematria http://www.talk-grace.com/showthread.php?2092-Gematria&goto=newpost Sat, 28 Aug 2010 20:10:28 GMT Does anybody know what this is all about, and if it is reliable and accurate? I've got a friend asking some questions about it and I have never looked into it before. Would appreciate any help or info one can provide.

Thanks,
Paige ]]> Biblical Impressions Paige http://www.talk-grace.com/showthread.php?2092-Gematria Hapy Birthday Amie http://www.talk-grace.com/showthread.php?2091-Hapy-Birthday-Amie&goto=newpost Sat, 28 Aug 2010 15:56:39 GMT Happy Birthday, Amie! Have a great day :) :party::woo: Happy Birthday, Amie! Have a great day :)

:party::woo: ]]> Announcements Paige http://www.talk-grace.com/showthread.php?2091-Hapy-Birthday-Amie Question Permission requested http://www.talk-grace.com/showthread.php?2090-Permission-requested&goto=newpost Wed, 25 Aug 2010 21:37:29 GMT Hey everyone :)

I'm starting a new blog called Love Jesus Not Religion at http://lovejesusnotreligion.blogspot.com/

I'd like to use this blog for getting the Pantelist / covenant eschatology viewpoint out into more venues then just the Facebook community where I usually post. While I'll be writing some articles and making some videos, I would also love to include some of your articles / videos as well.

So I'd like to ask your permission to do so... I will of course give you full credit and will post your websites / blogs as well.

So if I may have your permission, can you please state so below in the comments... and use your real name as well, as I have a hard time remembering who is who around here sometimes just via user name.

Thank you in advance!

Dave Lewerenz ]]> Announcements Dave Lewerenz http://www.talk-grace.com/showthread.php?2090-Permission-requested Imputed, Inparted, Infused http://www.talk-grace.com/showthread.php?2089-Imputed-Inparted-Infused&goto=newpost Tue, 24 Aug 2010 16:28:51 GMT Recently learned the difference between these three terms, and how they make for neat shorthand of some on what I was describing in my musings here.... Recently learned the difference between these three terms, and how they make for neat shorthand of some on what I was describing in my musings here.

Imputed of course, is where God simply declares a person righteous, apart from their own actions.

Imparted is the more Methodist-originated concept, (Wesley) where God grants the convert at new birth the motivation to strive for holiness. They believe it works in tandem with imputed rightesousness. Two pertinent scripturs are 2 Corinthians 3:18 and 2 Peter 1:4.

Infused is the Catholic view (Aquinas) that we become holy as we confess, repent, receive sacraments and then strive to do good.

What I have seen happen in Protestantism, is that the imputed/imparted combo has in practice often become treated as a kind of infusion, as it is assumed to lead into actual practiced righteousness as we "grow" (and not remain merely a desire to do better).

As recently, I have witnessed and jumped into several bouts of conservative Obama-bashing, and arguments over the Tea Party motives, I have come into contact with people who seem to define truth as conservative ideology itself, while liberals are said to have a mental disorder or disease, and be incapable of truth, compulsive liars, and a couple saying they themselves had no ego or deceit in their nature.
They themselves compalain on and on about every policy or news event, but when you provide a counterpoint (like the suggestion that the money is not just being eaten up by social programs, but also corporate greed), they tell you "stop whining". It's a total attrribution shift where they have the right to complain, but no one else does, because only they are right.Try to question them on this, and they turned the whole discussion onto me, for supposedly being "dishonest". (In the questioning tactic, as well as not "confessing" to be a "far left liberal", which is not really true).

Yet most refused to even bring scripture into the debate, insisting that the truth on political matters was "self-evident" or automatically on the conservative side since they were "more biblically grounded" in the moral debates (abortion, etc) and thus needed no scriptural defense in other areas, and that the questioner simply didn't want to see the truth. Anyone who argues any point against them is then tagged as wholesale liberal and enemy of America.
Now, we have the whole mosque debate, and while I am really torn on that one; still, seeing people lash out at Islam beyond it just being an unscriptural religion, to the point of its adherents being incapable of any good.

So as these are all people who believe in imputation and impartation, it makes me question even how much of the latter is real in most people. It really made it look like my agnostic father and many others have said, that people are just using religion to suppress their neuroses and justify themselves, meaning being "good" in comparison to others' "evil". (Of course, with precisely a real faith in impartation of righteousness, that would not be at all necessary!)

I know that when I became Christian, I had the impartation experience (the only true "feeling" of change I ever could perceive), but since I know my continued sinful thoughts and such, and it doesn't seem that people who were really imparted (the way they take it), would be able to have the attitudes they do (as if they are "already there" in being right about every issue, compared to everyone else's evil), then it seems that is another hyped up concept. Part of the impartation would involve showing us where we are still falling short. Don't they teach (from scripture) that the Spirit makes us grow by convicting us? So where would there ever be any room for such attitudes?
And the Catholics' "infusion"; forget about it!

So it looks like imputation is really the only hope for anyone. God has apparently left the imparetation part so much up to our own choices, and we all fail at that, and I see very few who grow up into these super-mature [near-]"perfected" Christians. ]]> Biblical Impressions Eric B http://www.talk-grace.com/showthread.php?2089-Imputed-Inparted-Infused Happy Birthday Paige! http://www.talk-grace.com/showthread.php?2088-Happy-Birthday-Paige!&goto=newpost Wed, 18 Aug 2010 23:42:04 GMT Attachment 148

Happy Birthday Paige!!!!
Attached Images
]]> Announcements ozark http://www.talk-grace.com/showthread.php?2088-Happy-Birthday-Paige! <![CDATA[Here's to you]]> http://www.talk-grace.com/showthread.php?2087-Here-s-to-you&goto=newpost Fri, 13 Aug 2010 18:55:40 GMT I think that they're talking about y'all....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dX9GT...layer_embedded

Love you!

Amie ]]> General Chat Amie http://www.talk-grace.com/showthread.php?2087-Here-s-to-you Allen Brooks http://www.talk-grace.com/showthread.php?2086-Allen-Brooks&goto=newpost Fri, 13 Aug 2010 02:06:15 GMT To read Allen Brooks' (aka "Brother Allen") commentary:

http://allencommentary.blogspot.com/

He has a radio show too out of Nashville. I'll get the info...

Amie ]]> Blogroll Amie http://www.talk-grace.com/showthread.php?2086-Allen-Brooks parable of the talents http://www.talk-grace.com/showthread.php?2085-parable-of-the-talents&goto=newpost Thu, 12 Aug 2010 16:16:12 GMT ---Quote--- Mat 25:13 Therefore, watch, for you do not know the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man comes. Mat 25:14 For it is as if a man...
Quote:
Mat 25:13 Therefore, watch, for you do not know the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man comes.
Mat 25:14 For it is as if a man going abroad called his own slaves and delivered his goods to them.
Mat 25:15 And to one indeed he gave five talents, and to another, two, and to another, one, to each according to his ability. And he went abroad at once.
Mat 25:16 And going, the one who received the five talents worked with them and made another five talents.
Mat 25:17 In the same way, the one with the two also did; he also gained another two.
Mat 25:18 But going away, the one who received the one dug in the earth and hid his lord's silver.
Mat 25:19 And after much time, the lord of those slaves came and took account with them.
Mat 25:20 And coming up, the one who received five talents brought another five talents near, saying, Lord, you delivered five talents to me. Behold, I gained another five talents above them.
Mat 25:21 And his lord said to him, Well done, good and faithful slave. You were faithful over a few things; I will set you over many. Enter into the joy of your lord.
Mat 25:22 And the one who received two talents also coming up, he said, Lord, you delivered two talents to me. Behold, I have gained two other talents above them.
Mat 25:23 His lord said to him, Well done, good and faithful slave. You were faithful over a few things, I will set you over many. Enter into the joy of your lord.
Mat 25:24 And the one who received the one talent also coming up, he said, Lord, I knew you, that you are a hard man, reaping where you did not sow, and gathering where you did not scatter;
Mat 25:25 and being afraid, going away, I hid your talent in the earth. Behold, you have yours.
Mat 25:26 And answering, his lord said to him, Evil and slothful slave! You knew that I reap where I did not sow, and I gather where I did not scatter.
Mat 25:27 Then you ought to have put my silver to the bankers, and coming I would have received my own with interest.
Mat 25:28 Therefore, take the talent from him and give it to him who has the ten talents.
Mat 25:29 For to each who has, more will be given, and he will abound. But from him who does not have, even that which he has will be taken from him.
Mat 25:30 And throw the worthless slave out into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of the teeth.
Please, what is your understanding of this parable in context?

Amie ]]> Covenantally Speaking Amie http://www.talk-grace.com/showthread.php?2085-parable-of-the-talents The role(s) of God http://www.talk-grace.com/showthread.php?2084-The-role(s)-of-God&goto=newpost Thu, 12 Aug 2010 16:08:48 GMT It can be said that God is "Father" which enables us to relate to God that way (as parents). But, God's role, function, and ultimately who God is, is not limited to "Father".

For example, the flood story.

Quote:
Gen 6:6 And Jehovah repented that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved to His heart.
The Hebrew word translated "repented" (oddly imo) is "nacham" and it literally means "to sigh deeeply". "Awph" is often translated "anger" and it literally means "the flaring of the nose". It was actually said in Hebrew like that. "Anger" is too abstract a word. "Repented" is an odd choice imo because the feeling being expressed in the sigh is one of sorrow.. "Jehovah felt sorrow for having made man o the earth." It may mean something similar in action, but to me that isn't the same thing.

When God looked at the behavior of humanity, which was other and self destructive, he felt sorrow. Further, God says that he was going to just blot humanity out.

(The Hebrew word ("machah") often translated "destroyed" in relation to mankind in this story is also odd imo because of the connotations. The word actuall means "to rub out" or "erase" - like when a person is writing.)

If Noah finds grace, it is possible that God decides not blot out humanity after all. If putting Noah on that boat meant his being a catalyst for ushing in a new humanity and finishing an old one, then God never changed his mind (what do you think???).

I noticed this:

Quote:
Gen 6:18 And I will establish My covenant with you. And you shall come into the ark, you and your sons and your wife and your sons' wives with you.
I would think, but am just entertaining thoughts and really really want to hear from y'all, that "establishing My covenant" would mean that Noah was a catalyst.

I have heard this story told before where God is still in the proverbial box of fatherhood. Because humans are behaving badly, he wishes they were never born. Noah was the only well behaved child so God saves him but violently destroys all of the wicked people. And we all lived happily ever after, amen.

Then the violence of God is either justified because of the bad behavior of the children, or the violence of parents is justified because of God's behavior. "It's for your own good." Bah! Y'all know how much of a pet peeve that is for me! lol!

IF the choice God made actually made Noah a catalyst, it doesn't take away from the violence of people dying by drowning. It can serve as an example of a difference between God's role (facilitating human development) and the role of parents (facilitating an environment which allows for growth).

But that's just a thought of mine and like I said, something swirling around in my head. I hope that someone will share some thoughts??

Amie ]]> Biblical Impressions Amie http://www.talk-grace.com/showthread.php?2084-The-role(s)-of-God